The Phils are around .500

[rothdawg]

This thread cracks me up.

Everyone was bitching about how the Phillies didn't have the balls to "go for it" and Amaro does this and now he's a piece of shit and you knew it all along.

I give him credit for going for it, but you can't ignore the fact that franchise has been regressing significantly under his watch. I have no issues with trading prospects for players like Lee, Halladay and Oswalt (Pence not so much). But the team has drafted horribly the last 3 or 4 seasons, and those are his guys making those picks. And he's had three bad offseasons in acquiring complimentary players. Qualls, Baez, Polanco, Durbin, Delmon and Michael Young, Nix, Wiggington, ect. He also let guys like Schierholtz, Vogleson and Grilli go from the organization, and they've all been huge contributors for their respective teams. It's not all bad luck.

I'd be a hypocrite if I called for his head over resigning Howard, I supported it at the time, and hindsights always 20/20. But Howard is going to be a big problem for this Franchise over the next couple years. He just doesn't have the bat speed anymore to overcome his inability to recognize pitches, and that's only going to get worse with age.

[slag]

I don't disagree with what you're writing ... particularly about bench players.

However, I find it ridiculous that know-it-alls are pissing on him when he is mostly in this mess because he attempted to do what virtually everyone wanted.

They had a contender and he went for the pieces to try to win another World Series.

Baseball is a game of ridiculous contracts ... you want to take a shot you have to pay ... money and players.

[rothdawg]

He did a good job at "going for it", which is what everyone wanted. Now he's going to get his chance to rebuild it. I just hope he gets back some better players than he got for Lee, Pence and Victorino.

[slag]

If they have to blow it up and sell, I hope he does also.

The homegrown core is on the downside and they need a new foundation.

That may take awhile, Ashe, Biddle (and hopefully, Joseph) notwithstanding.

[JuTMSY4]

hopefully Dom Brown is the real deal, dude's been on fire. I wish he'd draw more walks...

[The Duck]

I loved the big moves

However, I find it ridiculous that know-it-alls are pissing on him when he is mostly in this mess because he attempted to do what virtually everyone wanted.

The only two I hated from the get-go were Howard's deal and the Papelbon signing. I didn't love trading Lee to Seattle either.

But whatever... the big moves didn't pan out. And the small moves aren't panning out either. RAJ inherited a champion and dropped them down a peg each year of his tenure. Of course he's going to get pissed on. That's the nature of the thing.

[JuTMSY4]

that's tricky

The only two I hated from the get-go were Howard's deal and the Papelbon signing. I didn't love trading Lee to Seattle either.

But whatever... the big moves didn't pan out. And the small moves aren't panning out either. RAJ inherited a champion and dropped them down a peg each year of his tenure. Of course he's going to get pissed on. That's the nature of the thing.

He inherited a winner, but an aging one. These guys aren't sealed, they have an expiration date. On top of that, RAJ sold the farm to build more winners (and the playoffs are a crap shoot). He sustained the winning and the opportunities. I'm fine with a strategy of trying to win instead of the Lurban get to the tourney model. The Phils got to be the bride and I can't complain.

I will admit that he's given up a lot of talent for pieces that haven't given us a ton of value (or gotten value of pieces he's moved). The system has been damaged on RAJ's watch (right there with Roth)

But now's the time, I think, to call it a day

[rothdawg]

If they have to blow it up and sell, I hope he does also.

The homegrown core is on the downside and they need a new foundation.

That may take awhile, Ashe, Biddle (and hopefully, Joseph) notwithstanding.

Asche has been mediocre in AAA. Joseph was downright terrible before he got hurt. They're next good position prospect is Maikel Franco in Clearwater. They really need to land some young talent for Lee, Pap, ect.

[slag]

I'd hold off on evaluating Ashe and Joseph on this sample you're using.

[slag]

He runs the count in his favor better than maybe anyone else in that lineup.

[slag]

The Phillies were the best team in baseball in 2011 in no small part because of his moves.

If you had told me in April that they would go to the last game in the NLDS and Halladay would give up only one run, I'd have signed for it then.

They should have won the WS and the failure was not on Amaro.

[rothdawg]

I'd hold off on evaluating Ashe and Joseph on this sample you're using.

Asche, yes. But Joseph took a step back last year in the Minors. He might be better off at 1b.


EDIT: I just looked and saw Joseph's only 21. I thought he was older than that. A 21 year old AAA is ahead of development.

[slag]

Minor leaguers are tricky ... I went to watch Bryce Harper in AA a few times and he hit shit every game I saw ... his overall numbers weren't that great either.

There was a rain delay during one of the games and I went under the stands near the door to the locker room, where I ended up bullshitting with a coach.

I asked him what he thought of Harper ... this guy was an old timer who had seen all the great players that came up through Montreal's system (where the Nats originated) and he said Harper was the real deal.

Wasn't showing it then, but that's how it is sometimes.

I'm not saying Joseph is in Harper's class, but numbers don't always tell the story and I understand he's highly regarded.