Who the f*ck signed off on this guy's clearance?

[Eagle Road]

This is pretty interesting, from 2005...

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/20/politics/20submarine.html?_r=0

Oh, and this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A

As an aside, I highly recommend the book "Blind Man's Bluff" if you ever get a chance to read it.

I agree IE, it's nothing new, the real question is, should it be allowed to continue, and if so at what rate/scope and with or without supervision?

I'm just not a big fan of these "Government Programs" they ALL seem to have unintended consequences.

Thank's for the lead on the book, will look it up.

[Eagle Road]

I bet Adolf liked the kind of self-loathing, yet patronizing, sheep who thought like this about incremental infringements on privacy:

"When you realize your life has little to no significance in the larger scheme of things, it's liberating and leads you to actual freedom. As opposed to the mythical type of freedom propagated by the usual suspects of idiots."

Soooo, everything is predestined? I would also add that "Actual or Total freedom is a farce, unless you own nothing and live like an animal.

Question, do you vote?

[harls]

Soooo, everything is predestined? I would also add that "Actual or Total freedom is a farce, unless you own nothing and live like an animal.

Question, do you vote?

Is everything predestined? No but our government has a lot of plans on how to become richer and more powerful at the expense of the American people. The majority of the politicians do not serve our country they serve there wallets, then their party. If it is the proper thing to do for the American people that is just a coincidence.

[slag]

What the hell does destiny have to do with this?

[Eagle Road]

Is everything predestined? No but our government has a lot of plans on how to become richer and more powerful at the expense of the American people. The majority of the politicians do not serve our country they serve there wallets, then their party. If it is the proper thing to do for the American people that is just a coincidence.

Completely agree, I was pointing that toward Slag's statement that basically maintained a "Don't worry, Be happy" attitude.

I think as citizens we not only have a right but more importantly a duty to question when, where, and how our tax monies are spent, and how we are being represented.

Again, JMHO.

[slag]

The question of the hero status (or not) of this guy is independent of the discussion about whether the alleged interests of security are infringing too far on the right to privacy.

[IronEagle]

The question of the hero status (or not) of this guy is independent of the discussion about whether the alleged interests of security are infringing too far on the right to privacy.

I have very mixed feelings about what this guy did.

I guess I always took it for granted that the US goverment has been collecting this sort of information for years.

Back in the 90s there were certain popular software packages you could not take out of the country because the NSA deemed their encryption too much work for them to crack. Seriously. It was a crime to export certain software.

If you want to blame something for an increase in the surveillance state, blame 9/11 and the passage of the "Patriot" Act. That's what legalized the snooping they have been doing for years.

[wynnron123]

This stuff have been going on for yrs.

Remember J. Edgar Hoover? The only difference now is the technology and social media.

[The Ref]

This is pretty interesting, from 2005...

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/20/politics/20submarine.html?_r=0

Oh, and this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A

As an aside, I highly recommend the book "Blind Man's Bluff" if you ever get a chance to read it.

That has been exactly my point from the beginning. What's going on now has been going on our entire lives and even before we were born. Only technology has changed and advanced.

It takes profound naiveté to think otherwise. However "free" you were in 1957, you are equally free today.

Saw a screening this weekend of "The Lottery of Birth" (also avail on itunes). In this era of TED talks, a provocative look at biases we willingly, but unknowingly accept based on what society we have been raised in. It's part of a series called Creating Freedom:

It's heady and a bit like having a dinner conversation with your most interesting and progressive college professors.

Here's a TED talk from one of the creators.

[JuTMSY4]

However "free" you were in 1957, you are equally free today.

that's just factually inaccurate

[slag]

I'm aware of all this ... the issue as I see it is whether 9/11 put us in a frame of mind that's allowing too much unregulated surveillance.

I'm more for erring on the side of helping law enforcement, but I'd like a little more light on the parameters to be more comfortable with the monitoring mechanism.

It's not an easy question, but I do think we've been kind of taking for granted that the government isn't stepping over the 4th Amendment line because we're the good guys.

BTW - Hoover's illegal wiretaps and bugging aren't a justification for illegal surveillance now.

[The Ref]

that's just factually inaccurate

freedom is a concept, not a fact. Actually, freedom is quite a rubbery concept.

[slag]

Just STFU already.

If you knew what the significance of the names Mapp, Aguillar, Spinelli, Terry, White, Sitz, Whren or Katz were, you wouldn't make idiotic statements about the relative status of freedom now and in 1957.

Of course, because you watch television, you are likely aware of the significance of the name Miranda ... but that doesn't stop your blathering either.

[slag]

I didn't state anything of the sort ... you should read more carefully ... I actually stated the opposite.

[JuTMSY4]

freedom is a concept, not a fact. Actually, freedom is quite a rubbery concept.

But freedom isn't the fact which you're arguing over. It's which facts comport with more or less freedom. Even so, you've made the righteous statement that there is no difference. Prove it