Who the f*ck signed off on this guy's clearance?

[harls]

Some freedoms have come and gone over the years. At one time being japanese got you locked away. Japanese americans no longer have that issue they are free of that. But we now have other people locked away with no evidence of any wrong doing by them. 86 of them in guantanimo bay.

Today the definitions they adapted to cover domestic terrorists could apply to any of us that are vomplaining about the governments overreaching. They can turn on the mic and the cameras to our phones to monitor our conversations and our surroundings.

They have passed bills to protect the companies who are poisoning our food and won't allow us to even know which foods contain the poison.

Our government does these thinngs yet we are to blindly believe they have our best interest at heart. If we question their actions we can gey locked up... doesnt sound like a free country yo me.

[royal]

Who says America doesn't do irony. A guy charged with espionage for refusing to spy on Americans.

[The Ref]

But freedom isn't the fact which you're arguing over. It's which facts comport with more or less freedom. Even so, you've made the righteous statement that there is no difference. Prove it

Please name one significant thing you can't you do today that you could do in 1957. You can make arguments of nanny state laws like wearing a seatbelt, but otherwise you got nuttin. We've always been arbitrarily surveilled, and we always will. All that's changed is the technology to do it.

[Riccardo]

well duh

Technology makes all the difference in the world. In 1957, the only way one could be "surveilled" was with a direct link phone tap. What % of the US population was under that in those days - 0.0001% maybe? Now phone, email, text messages of virtually everyone can be captured. Laser microphones can even record verbal conversations in your home now - who knows if NSA is using that as well.

[JuTMSY4]

I didn't make the contention

Please name one significant thing you can't you do today that you could do in 1957. You can make arguments of nanny state laws like wearing a seatbelt, but otherwise you got nuttin. We've always been arbitrarily surveilled, and we always will. All that's changed is the technology to do it.

you did. So I stand by my point.

But if you want an example

Hamdi v. Rumseld

Consider the host of other enemy combatant rights that don't exist- illegal and indefinite detention, assassinating US citizens, trying citizens in federal courts or military tribunals. If you can't be afforded the protections of the laws, what's the point of the laws?

And it isn't a partisan point. We haven't seen presidents run roughshod over the constitution like this since Nixon. Bush and Obama have taken significant steps to erode.

And you've never answered my question of weeks ago - what's the 4th amendment for?

[slag]

Don't you get it?

If you didn't have a right in 1957, you shouldn't have it now.

Fourth Amendment rights must stay stagnant.

When Miranda was decided, by his logic, the Supreme Court should have held that the police should be able to question you without advising you of your right to an attorney etc., because they didn't have to do it in 1957.

EDITED TO ADD: And I'm not even suggesting creation of new rights here ... I'm simply concerned about whether implementation of current surveillance is in line with existing 4th Amendment rights.

I'm so paranoid!

[JuTMSY4]

freedom is for plebs

[wynnron123]

I think you are correct

911 and the Oklahoma bombing has changed the landscape for the NSA. The Patriot act was a bone thrown to the American citizens to get access. How much is it in conjunction with the 4th amendment is the real story ???

[Loki]

I don't know.

J. Edgar Hoover had a lot of dirt on an awful lot of people.

Now HE'S a guy that wouldn't be able to hang around in today's world. You just know that someone would have whipped out their cell phone and put up a vid on youtube of Eddie doing the Ellsworth tuck dance while dressed up like RuPaul in some dingy night club.

[IronEagle]

Now Snowden has left China (Hong Kong is China) and gone to Russia.

Interesting how he seems to be visiting all of the U.S. rivals (I won't call them enemies... we're not at war with them and that's why technically he's NOT a traitor) on his world tour.

[wynnron123]

His next trip will be North Korea.

nm

[IronEagle]

nm

I come back to my original post.

Who the f*ck gave this guy a security clearance?

I have the feeling somebody in his family may have been "in the business"

[Eagle Road]

Well since this has been a very civil discussion, and I don't wish to fill the board with negative threads, I will put this here, if a mod wants to put it in it's own thread feel free to move it.

Just remember these are the SAME people that will be handling the financial end of Healthcare. Do some of you STILL think the Government gives a shit about you, OR YOUR RIGHTS?


‘Unauthorized’ Aliens at 1 Atlanta Address
June 21, 2013 - 4:18 PM
By Terence P. Jeffrey


(CNSNews.com) - The Internal Revenue Service sent 23,994 tax refunds worth a combined $46,378,040 to “unauthorized” alien workers who all used the same address in Atlanta, Ga., in 2011, according to the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration (TIGTA).

That was not the only Atlanta address theoretically used by thousands of “unauthorized” alien workers receiving millions in federal tax refunds in 2011. In fact, according to a TIGTA audit report published last year, four of the top ten addresses to which the IRS sent thousands of tax refunds to “unauthorized” aliens were in Atlanta.

The IRS sent 11,284 refunds worth a combined $2,164,976 to unauthorized alien workers at a second Atlanta address; 3,608 worth $2,691,448 to a third; and 2,386 worth $1,232,943 to a fourth.

Other locations on the IG’s Top Ten list for singular addresses that were theoretically used simultaneously by thousands of unauthorized alien workers, included an address in Oxnard, Calif, where the IRS sent 2,507 refunds worth $10,395,874; an address in Raleigh, North Carolina, where the IRS sent 2,408 refunds worth $7,284,212; an address in Phoenix, Ariz., where the IRS sent 2,047 refunds worth $5,558,608; an address in Palm Beach Gardens, Fla., where the IRS sent 1,972 refunds worth $2,256,302; an address in San Jose, Calif., where the IRS sent 1,942 refunds worth $5,091,027; and an address in Arvin, Calif., where the IRS sent 1,846 refunds worth $3,298,877.

Since 1996, the IRS has issued what it calls Individual Taxpayer Identification Numbers (ITINs) to two classes of persons: 1) non-resident aliens who have a tax liability in the United States, and 2) aliens living in the United States who are “not authorized to work in the United States.”

The IRS has long known it was giving these numbers to illegal aliens, and thus facilitating their ability to work illegally in the United States. For example, the Treasury Inspector General’s Semiannual Report to Congress published on Oct. 29, 1999—nearly fourteen years ago—specifically drew attention to this problem.

“The IRS issues Individual Taxpayer Identification Numbers (ITINs) to undocumented aliens to improve nonresident alien compliance with tax laws. This IRS practice seems counter-productive to the Immigration and Naturalization Service’s (INS) mission to identify undocumented aliens and prevent unlawful alien entry,” TIGTA warned in that long-ago report.

The inspector general’s 2012 audit report on the IRS’s handling of ITINs was spurred by two IRS employees who went to members of Congress "alleging that IRS management was requiring employees to assign Individual Taxpayer Identification Numbers (ITIN) even when the applications were fraudulent.”

In an August 2012 press release accompanying the audit report, TIGTA said the report “validated” the complaints of the IRS employees.

“TIGTA’s audit found that IRS management has not established adequate internal controls to detect and prevent the assignment of an ITIN to individuals submitting questionable applications,” said Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration J. Russell George. “Even more troubling, TIGTA found an environment which discourages employees from detecting fraudulent applications.”

In addition to the 23,994 tax refunds worth a combined $46,378,040 that the IRS sent to a single address in Atlanta, the IG also discovered that the IRS had assigned 15,796 ITINs to unauthorized aliens who presumably used a single Atlanta address.

The IRS, according to TIGTA, also assigned ITINs to 15,028 unauthorized aliens presumably using a single address in Dallas, Texas, and 10,356 to unauthorized aliens presumably living at a single address in Atlantic City, N.J.

Perhaps the most remarkable act of the IRS was this: It assigned 6,411 ITINs to unauthorized aliens presumably using a single address in Morganton, North Carolina. According to the 2010 Census, there were only 16,681 people in Morganton. So, for the IRS to have been correct in issuing 6,411 ITINS to unauthorized aliens at a single address in Morganton it would have meant that 38 percent of the town’s total population were unauthorized alien workers using a single address.

TIGTA said there were 154 addresses around the country that appeared on 1,000 or more ITIN applications made to the IRS.

[J_Cuz31]

Prove it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Protective_League

The American Protective League operated in the early 20th Century and was the natural precursor to the NSA. Back then this agency infiltrated groups, intercepted mail, broke into houses, and performed other illegal acts with the blessing of the federal government. If the groups illicit activities unearthed any anti-government activity the League turned the information over to the fed and warrants were served to to the offending parties.

Explain to me the difference.

[harls]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Protective_League

The American Protective League operated in the early 20th Century and was the natural precursor to the NSA. Back then this agency infiltrated groups, intercepted mail, broke into houses, and performed other illegal acts with the blessing of the federal government. If the groups illicit activities unearthed any anti-government activity the League turned the information over to the fed and warrants were served to to the offending parties.

Explain to me the difference.

Today they don't have to B&E as much since they can control Cameras and Microphones that we have on us and in our homes... Other then that its about the same old same old