GASLAND Fracking in PA OT

[TerpEagle]

For real?

You mean fracking and domestic surveillance weren't first employed in 2008?

I guess I just didn't understand the point of your current administration comment.

[TerpEagle]

Perhaps they are in on this...

"The oil and gas industry enjoys exemptions from portions of those environmental laws. But it is not completely exempt from any of them."

http://www.nytimes.com/gwire/2011/02...pagewanted=all

I'm not saying that Gasland isn't biased or even twisting of facts.

But let's look a little deeper past that line, shall we?

There are exemptions. Just like other drilling industries have exemptions. Some are recent from 2005, others are older.

I do think the documentary can be needlessly political, because both sides of the aisle support these things.

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The oil and gas industry enjoys exemptions from portions of those environmental laws. But it is not completely exempt from any of them.

A one-paragraph section of the 550-page energy bill exempted hydraulic fracturing from the Safe Drinking Water Act (SDWA) but only the underground injection control (UIC) provisions. Oil and gas companies can be sanctioned under other provisions of the law. And one has been recently in Texas (Greenwire, Dec. 8, 2010).

Industry has contended that the bill does not "exempt" hydraulic fracturing from the law, because EPA had not previously regulated fracturing under SDWA. But the 2005 bill specifically excluded fracturing stating that the regulation "excludes ... underground injection of fluids ... pursuant to hydraulic fracturing operations."

Also, EPA complied with a 1997 appeals court order instructing it to require that Alabama regulate fracturing under SDWA. The 2005 legislation ended that requirement for EPA and prevented the precedent from being used elsewhere. However, outside Alabama, EPA had imposed no restrictions on fracturing under SDWA before the exemption in the 2005 bill.

The energy bill, called the Energy Policy Act of 2005, originated from a 2001 White House energy plan, developed by a task force led by Vice President Dick Cheney, who headed Halliburton at the time of the Alabama ruling. The Los Angeles Times reported in 2004 that Cheney's office was involved in discussions about how fracturing should be portrayed in the 2001 report and that it resisted EPA's attempts to include concerns about its effects on the environment (Greenwire, Oct. 15, 2010).

Passage of the bill was a policy achievement for the George W. Bush administration. Barack Obama, a senator at the time, voted for the bill.

The 2005 energy bill also exempted oil and gas drilling from the stormwater provisions of the Clean Water Act. Drilling was already exempt from CWA's stormwater discharge permit program, so long as it is not contaminated with sediment or chemicals. The bill expanded the exemption to cover new roads and pipelines associated with oil and gas production.

The 2005 act also made it easier for oil and gas projects on federal lands to bypass the most exhaustive federal reviews under the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA). If a broader environmental analysis, such as an environmental impact statement, has already been done for the gas field, the law allowed a "categorical exclusion" for drill pads less than 5 acres, and most drill pads are less than 5 acres.

Hazardous waste created by drilling is exempt from the federal hazardous waste regulations of the Resource Conservation and Recovery Act (RCRA), but this exemption was granted long before 2005. Under federal law, it is treated as regular waste headed to a landfill. States can have stricter standards.

Clean Air Act provisions implemented long before 2005, according to the environmental group Earthworks, prevent oil and gas wells from being lumped together when measuring air pollution to determine what kind of protections are needed.
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[TerpEagle]

There are extreme positions on both sides. The anti-Frac side sees disaster and wants all fracking stopped. The industry says the possible problems are minimal and the need for the oil and gas far outweighs the potential problems.

The industry made a mistake when these issues first came up. They wouldn't even share what chemicals made up the fluids they were sending into the ground that would eventually seep into the water tables. We would probably e closer to a solution/resolution if the industry cooperated. Their position has changed as moratoriums on fracking are initiated ...but they opened the door for the anti-Frac groups to get a foothold.

Technology may eventually resolve things. Here's one company working on a fluid free concept.

I own interests in private companies drilling horizontal wells in the U.S. ,Canada and Europe. And .take it from me....this issue ..although it impacts everyone..is local local local. NY has halted fracking. Texas will give you tax breaks if you just say the word "fracking" there is a fracking operation of going on on every potentially productive acre in the state.


http://www.gasfrac.com/in-the-news.html

Economics are driving it as well. If petroleum prices were lower, people would care less about needing to frack. Same goes for getting oil from shale and tar sands.

Now, does anyone really think that petroleum prices are driven only by supply?

[slag]

Seemed to me the filmaker was suggesting this administration's position that "the gas is greener" (so to speak) is a function of being corrupted by that industry.

[CCPete]

Economics are driving it as well. If petroleum prices were lower, people would care less about needing to frack. Same goes for getting oil from shale and tar sands.

Now, does anyone really think that petroleum prices are driven only by supply?

Very good point. With the Middle East a tinder box that could ignite at any time, we see the speculators already sending the price of oil above $100 bbl. and the days of easy oil are gone. The cost of finding and producing new pools require a high price point for the product. A lot of fracking operations would cease if the bottom falls out of oil prices. Similar to what recently happened with NG .

[jrachiever]

Yeah they occasionally do some destructive stuff.

Oil companies have an incredibly difficult job and most of them are doing it very very well.

[Riccardo]

Agreed

I'm just saying that their opinion/research on the matter should probably be looked at with just as much if not more skepticism.

And it appears it already has been, by the likes of the NY Times and Daily Kos - hardly sources sympathetic to "big oil". Bottom line, this isn't really a political issue. More of a conspiracy kooks vs non-kooks issue.

[Big Little]

Typical

[TerpEagle]

And it appears it already has been, by the likes of the NY Times and Daily Kos - hardly sources sympathetic to "big oil". Bottom line, this isn't really a political issue. More of a conspiracy kooks vs non-kooks issue.

I think it's more of a big corporation/industry vs. average group of disorganized and misinformed citizens issue. Typically, when that is the case, big industry gets to do what they want for a while until the kooks cause enough of a fuss.

[TerpEagle]

Very good point. With the Middle East a tinder box that could ignite at any time, we see the speculators already sending the price of oil above $100 bbl. and the days of easy oil are gone. The cost of finding and producing new pools require a high price point for the product. A lot of fracking operations would cease if the bottom falls out of oil prices. Similar to what recently happened with NG .

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/100726/top-7-us-oil-importers

That type of fear campaign is part of the manipulation.

[TerpEagle]

Yeah they occasionally do some destructive stuff.

Oil companies have an incredibly difficult job and most of them are doing it very very well.

Just like cops. And the military. And politicians for that matter, right? No need to criticize or question when things aren't done well.

[JuTMSY4]

I think it's more of a big corporation/industry vs. average group of disorganized and misinformed citizens issue. Typically, when that is the case, big industry gets to do what they want for a while until the kooks cause enough of a fuss.

crony capitalism. No business needs subsidies...

[TerpEagle]

crony capitalism. No business needs subsidies...

Subsidies can serve a purpose to enhance growth into new industries and stem the effects of economic downturns. However, money drives the influence and it easily becomes a slippery slope.

[slag]

What's typical?

[JuTMSY4]

What's typical?

Big Little is concerned about BigOil, BigPharma and BigSlag