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  • Gun Nutz

    Doesn't Chi-town have some of the strictest gun laws in the nation? How can this be?




    43 Shot, 5 Killed, in Spate of Weekend Violence in Chicago


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    BY NBC CHICAGO
    At least 43 people have been shot, five of them fatally, in a spate of violence across Chicago since Friday.
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    The latest homicide took place around 12:25 a.m. Sunday in the 3500 block of West Fullerton Avenue in the Logan Square neighborhood.
    A 21-year-old woman was in the back seat of a vehicle driving eastbound on Fullerton when a group of men standing on the sidewalk shouted gang slogans and opened fire on the car.
    The woman was transported to Norwegian American Hospital with wounds to the left side of her head and was later pronounced dead, according to authorities.
    On Saturday, a 17-year-old boy was fatally shot when a man dressed in all black approached him in the 5500 block of West North Avenue and fired at him from behind. The teen was pronounced dead at the scene.
    Less than an hour earlier, a 22-year-old man was fatally shot in the chest in the 5400 block of South Winchester Avenue in the Back of the Yards neighborhood.
    Police said the man was pronounced dead at the scene and a 19-year-old woman who was shot in the leg was taken in stable condition to Mount Sinai Hospital.
    The two were shot when someone fired into a home from outside, striking them both.
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    Police are conducting a homicide investigation.
    On Friday, a 32-year-old woman was fatally shot in her driveway in the 1300 block of West 116th Street as she returned home from an anti-violence fundraiser.
    Officers reported hearing shots fired around 10:30 p.m. and the woman, identified as Leonore Draper, was found in her car with wounds to her arm and chest. She was taken to Advocate Christ Medical Center where she was later pronounced dead.
    Earlier Friday, an off-duty police officer shot his neighbors, one of them fatally, after one neighbor shot and injured the officer’s wife in an argument that stemmed from a long-running feud between the two couples.
    Eight people were injured in overnight shootings Sunday.
    • A 23-year-old woman shot around 6 a.m. in the 4700 block of South Loomis Boulevard. Police did not have any further details about how the woman was shot, but said she suffered two wounds to the thigh and was in stable condition at Mercy Hospital and Medical Center.
    • Around 3:20 a.m. a 21-year-old man was shot while standing on a sidewalk in the 4700 block of North Drake Avenue in the Albany Park neighborhood. Police said a silver sedan drove by and fired shots at the man, who was transported to Swedish Covenant Hospital by someone with a wound to his left shin.
    • Less than two hours earlier, two 21-year-old men were shot in the 2500 block of West Division Street. The two were on a sidewalk when a large group of men approached on foot and someone in the group fired at the them, police said. One victim was shot in the left shoulder and taken to John H. Stroger Jr., Hospital of Cook County in stable condition. The other victim was taken to Norwegian American Hospital with a wound to the right foot and was expected to be treated and released.
    • Around 11:30 p.m. Saturday, a 38-year-old woman was shot while sitting in a parked car in the 10000 block of South Martin Luther King Jr. Drive, officials said. The woman told police a silver sedan drove by and fired shots at the vehicle she was in. She suffered a graze wound to the left shoulder and refused treatment, police said.
    • About 40 minutes earlier, a 24-year-old man was shot while driving near West 32nd Street and South Racine Avenue. The man was stopped at a stop sign when a man fired at him from the sidewalk. The victim drove himself to Stroger Hospital in stable condition with a wound to the right forearm, police said.
    • Just before 9:30 p.m., a 16-year-old boy was shot in the 500 block of East 47th Street in the city's Bronzeville neighborhood. The teen was walking on the sidewalk when two men exited a vehicle and fired shots at him. The teen was taken to Mercy Hospital with a wound to his left foot.
    • Around 4:30 p.m., a 36-year-old man was shot while standing on the 7900 block of South Vernon Avenue. The man said he heard shots and felt pain. He suffered wounds to his wrist and hip and was listed in good condition at Jackson Park Hospital, where he was expected to be treated and released.

  • #2
    Not a gun nut

    This is simple minded thinking at its best. Take an exception to try to prove a point or agenda. I guess a 60 degree day in August proves there is no global warming. You are playing the game our politicians love to play in taking the statistic that proves your point rather than looking at a big picture and taking into account variables. I am niether a gun nut or anti-gun.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by rdog5 View Post
      This is simple minded thinking at its best. Take an exception to try to prove a point or agenda. I guess a 60 degree day in August proves there is no global warming. You are playing the game our politicians love to play in taking the statistic that proves your point rather than looking at a big picture and taking into account variables. I am niether a gun nut or anti-gun.




      LOL, if YOU think THIS is the EXCEPTION in Chicago, then YOU are sadly mistaken, take a look at the last 12 months, and maybe YOU will see the big picture!

      Comment


      • #4
        The flaw in your logic it trying to suggest there is a linkage between the gun violence and the gun laws in place. Have you fully evauluated what the murder rate might be without the gun laws?

        Perhaps they are working just fine - nobody ever suggested gun control measures would eliminate murders.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Eagle Road View Post
          LOL, if YOU think THIS is the EXCEPTION in Chicago, then YOU are sadly mistaken, take a look at the last 12 months, and maybe YOU will see the big picture!
          So take your example and extrapolate it further to include other municipalities with similar laws. Then factor in crime rates prior to the law and after the law took effect. Also factor in economic influences, rises in drug related crimes, sentencing enhancements and other factors. This isn't a math problem where 1 + 1 = 2. There are many influences. But feel free to keep a simple judgmental mind where you find self-fulfilling prophetic facts to show that you were right all along.

          Easily located statistics show violent crimes have fallen over the last 3 years in Chicago. https://portal.chicagopolice.org/por...014_week12.pdf

          I don't pretend to think its as simple as suggesting one influence, stricter laws on guns, made this change.

          Here is another article YOU can read: http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/24/us/chi...nce/index.html

          Now let me be very clear I am not arguing either side of this debate as it is more complex than that. I am however arguing that you are simple minded and find facts that agree with what your egenda is and then say "See, I was right". Open mindeness is a terrible thing to waste.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Bardy View Post
            The flaw in your logic it trying to suggest there is a linkage between the gun violence and the gun laws in place. Have you fully evauluated what the murder rate might be without the gun laws?

            Perhaps they are working just fine - nobody ever suggested gun control measures would eliminate murders.

            I would suggest that without the gun laws in place that the murder rate might well be less than it is now.

            Originally posted by rdog5 View Post
            So take your example and extrapolate it further to include other municipalities with similar laws. Then factor in crime rates prior to the law and after the law took effect. Also factor in economic influences, rises in drug related crimes, sentencing enhancements and other factors. This isn't a math problem where 1 + 1 = 2. There are many influences. But feel free to keep a simple judgmental mind where you find self-fulfilling prophetic facts to show that you were right all along.

            Easily located statistics show violent crimes have fallen over the last 3 years in Chicago. https://portal.chicagopolice.org/por...014_week12.pdf

            I don't pretend to think its as simple as suggesting one influence, stricter laws on guns, made this change.

            Here is another article YOU can read: http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/24/us/chi...nce/index.html

            Now let me be very clear I am not arguing either side of this debate as it is more complex than that. I am however arguing that you are simple minded and find facts that agree with what your egenda is and then say "See, I was right". Open mindeness is a terrible thing to waste.

            Care to explain my agenda? Go ahead and tell me how many guns I have at home, how many rounds I store, and who I voted for the last several elections, I'll bet your wrong on all accounts, and while your at it compare Houston to Chicago, and tell me what you make of that scenario?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Eagle Road View Post
              I would suggest that without the gun laws in place that the murder rate might well be less than it is now.




              Care to explain my agenda? Go ahead and tell me how many guns I have at home, how many rounds I store, and who I voted for the last several elections, I'll bet your wrong on all accounts, and while your at it compare Houston to Chicago, and tell me what you make of that scenario?
              You make this too easy. This is like Peyton Manning against a wide 9. I will try to stay simple as you seem to go away from topic in order to attack.

              1. Your agenda is to incite an angry debate. I draw that conclusion by your title "Gun Nutz" referring to a group of people in a negative context plus posting an off-topic post on a previously hotly debated topic on this forum and then backing up your statement with a spike in statistics to prove your point. That is your agenda and the number of guns you own or who you voted for does not matter.

              2. I don't need to compare statistics of 2 totally different cities as I am not arguing the merits of gun laws as was stated before. I am just pointing out your original logic is flawed based on isolated statistical evidence. When presented with countering evidence of your original statement you did the tried and true tactic of bringing up another non-related subject matter to get off topic.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by rdog5 View Post
                You make this too easy. This is like Peyton Manning against a wide 9. I will try to stay simple as you seem to go away from topic in order to attack.

                1. Your agenda is to incite an angry debate. I draw that conclusion by your title "Gun Nutz" referring to a group of people in a negative context plus posting an off-topic post on a previously hotly debated topic on this forum and then backing up your statement with a spike in statistics to prove your point. That is your agenda and the number of guns you own or who you voted for does not matter.


                Just trying to help IE with his "ratings". You are totally off base here, as I didn't C&P the original text as a "spike" in statistics, that was my point, it isn't a spike it is an ongoing dilemma.

                2. I don't need to compare statistics of 2 totally different cities as I am not arguing the merits of gun laws as was stated before. I am just pointing out your original logic is flawed based on isolated statistical evidence. When presented with countering evidence of your original statement you did the tried and true tactic of bringing up another non-related subject matter to get off topic.



                So by choosing not to compare two cites that are very similar in their makeup and populace you are choosing to cherry pick the statistics to show that you are right on a topic that you are not interested in discussing, that is as "tried and true" as it gets.


                As far as isolated statically evidence, and only taking some factors into consideration, let's look at your statement that gun violence has dropped in Chicago the last three years, (actually, it has levelled off more than declined) have you thought that maybe one of the reasons it is down slightly so far this year may have been largely influenced by something as simply as the weather?


                It was a long hard winter for most of the Midwest, it is a fact, the worse the weather is, the less people are out and about, which makes for fewer confrontations. Also I haven't seen you list anything about reported gun violence being purposely misclassified? Would that not skew the analysis?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Post 1 by you: Gun Nutz and points to an article explaining violence in Chicago over a weekend

                  Post 2 by me: Points out flaw in using 1 weekend of violence as a sampling

                  Post 3 by you: "LOL, if YOU think THIS is the EXCEPTION in Chicago, then YOU are sadly mistaken, take a look at the last 12 months, and maybe YOU will see the big picture!" You attempt to identify flaw in my logic by looking at a greater period of time.

                  Post 4 by me: I point out statistics over a 3 year period showing violent crimes are down but end with this staement "Now let me be very clear I am not arguing either side of this debate as it is more complex than that. I am however arguing that you are simple minded and find facts that agree with what your egenda is and then say

                  Post 5 by you: You ask me to explain your agenda

                  Post 6 by me: I clearly explain your agenda

                  Post 7 by you: You ignore that you have been challenged on your agenda and go on to argue by saying statistics in another city are different as well as sayoing environmental factors may have played a role. Ironically this is exactly what I stated in post 4.

                  Take a breath, read everything again or have someone interpret it for you. To take a single weekend of gun violence and use it to prove or disprove a point is simply illogical. You are arguing with yourself over gun laws affecting gun violence.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by rdog5 View Post
                    Post 1 by you: Gun Nutz and points to an article explaining violence in Chicago over a weekend

                    Post 2 by me: Points out flaw in using 1 weekend of violence as a sampling

                    Post 3 by you: "LOL, if YOU think THIS is the EXCEPTION in Chicago, then YOU are sadly mistaken, take a look at the last 12 months, and maybe YOU will see the big picture!" You attempt to identify flaw in my logic by looking at a greater period of time.

                    Post 4 by me: I point out statistics over a 3 year period showing violent crimes are down but end with this staement "Now let me be very clear I am not arguing either side of this debate as it is more complex than that. I am however arguing that you are simple minded and find facts that agree with what your egenda is and then say

                    Post 5 by you: You ask me to explain your agenda

                    Post 6 by me: I clearly explain your agenda

                    Post 7 by you: You ignore that you have been challenged on your agenda and go on to argue by saying statistics in another city are different as well as sayoing environmental factors may have played a role. Ironically this is exactly what I stated in post 4.

                    Take a breath, read everything again or have someone interpret it for you. To take a single weekend of gun violence and use it to prove or disprove a point is simply illogical. You are arguing with yourself over gun laws affecting gun violence.





                    And again, YOU missed my whole point, I wasn't basing any statistics on ONE weekend, that is why I said,


                    "LOL, if YOU think THIS is the EXCEPTION in Chicago, then YOU are sadly mistaken, take a look at the last 12 months, and maybe YOU will see the big picture!"

                    You do understand the term EXCEPTION? Right?

                    YOU continued on your path of logic and name-calling based on a wrong assumption, maybe YOU should have some else reread it to YOU.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Ok you win. You have proven tht logic and common sense are the enemy of an open mind. You are so stuck in making your point you are changing what you are arguing about to meet that goal.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by rdog5 View Post
                        Ok you win. You have proven tht logic and common sense are the enemy of an open mind. You are so stuck in making your point you are changing what you are arguing about to meet that goal.








                        If that's the way you see it, but that LAST post, is VERBATEM the same as my FIRST response to you, NOTHING has been changed.


                        I can't help it you didn't get the jist of the original post before you tried to belittle someone you know nothing about.

                        Comment

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