New insight into Jackson-receivers' coach spat vs. Minnesota

[nerd]

i like cooper...but if cooper has a better year than desean...it would probably have more to do with the qbs than anything else.

[Eagle Road]

i like cooper...but if cooper has a better year than desean...it would probably have more to do with the qbs than anything else.

I really don't see Coop having a better year than Djax, unless Djax goes off and becomes a problem, which I doubt. Djax will be featured in that offense.


Besides, I have high hopes for the new WR's coming in, I think they will, at some point in the season, steal some of Coops targeting.


I honestly think Huff is going to be great across the middle, mark it down.

[Melchior]

Previously you were arguing Cooper would be fine without DeSean and that Cooper was a very good WR. I didn't agree with either of those points, but hey, they both could turn out to be true.

However, now, you seem to be arguing Cooper is a BETTER WR than DeSean, and if that's the case…c'mon man. Even Riley Cooper doesn't think he's a better WR than DeSean Jackson.

Regardless of who the best receiver is - if they can't get off of press coverage, they're going to be useless against the top defensive teams. Jackson's speed doesn't account for shit in playoff games where the refs let defenders hang on to him after jamming him at the line.

Unless he suddenly learns to use his hands and get stronger with his release, he's going to continue to be a regular season warrior that gets shit on in the playoffs.

Edit: Cooper will not have a better regular season than Jackson. There will be way too many options here with Maclin, Matthews, Ertz, Sproles, etc... However, he will have better stats in the playoffs because DJax won't make it there.

[nerd]

I really don't see Coop having a better year than Djax, unless Djax goes off and becomes a problem, which I doubt. Djax will be featured in that offense.


Besides, I have high hopes for the new WR's coming in, I think they will, at some point in the season, steal some of Coops targeting.


I honestly think Huff is going to be great across the middle, mark it down.

again, i don't see it happening...but if the stats are more in coopers favor...i would again think it would have more to do with qb's than anything else.

[Greenstealth]

Didn't desean create like a 40 yard pi call that led to a td? on top of the big catch on the sideline? It's been documented enough, he was open against NO.

[slag]

Nobody knew Jackson was gone if they held on to him?

Come on.

[weizer]

NOPE

Previously you were arguing Cooper would be fine without DeSean and that Cooper was a very good WR. I didn't agree with either of those points, but hey, they both could turn out to be true.

However, now, you seem to be arguing Cooper is a BETTER WR than DeSean, and if that's the case…c'mon man. Even Riley Cooper doesn't think he's a better WR than DeSean Jackson.

Don't try and discount everything i said by making assumptions that aren't even true...I said I believe Coop will have a better year this coming year than Djax...why? Because I don't think Djax will be featured as much, they have a guy in Garcon that led the league in receptions last year. Show me the posts where I said Cooper is better than Desean...I have said Coop played better with Foles at qb, which is true. Just like you downplay everything Coop does i can downplay Djax's stats too, they are misleading. They don't take in to play degree of difficulty or coverages/number of targets.

[weizer]

I agree with this

i like cooper...but if cooper has a better year than desean...it would probably have more to do with the qbs than anything else.

At least some people have honest football knowledge here.

[IronEagle]

Nobody knew Jackson was gone if they held on to him?

Come on.

Yup. Nobody knew Jackson was gone if they held on to him. Earlier in the week before he was released Jackson himself said that he had talked to Kelly and was sticking around.

I don't think people were shocked when he was let go but nobody except the Eagles knew for sure he was gone until he was actually let go.

The fact that Jackson was let go before the draft definitely affected the foreskins and Saints' draft strategies in a way that was detrimental to the Eagles, IMO.

[weizer]

Very true.

Regardless of who the best receiver is - if they can't get off of press coverage, they're going to be useless against the top defensive teams. Jackson's speed doesn't account for shit in playoff games where the refs let defenders hang on to him after jamming him at the line.

Unless he suddenly learns to use his hands and get stronger with his release, he's going to continue to be a regular season warrior that gets shit on in the playoffs.

Edit: Cooper will not have a better regular season than Jackson. There will be way too many options here with Maclin, Matthews, Ertz, Sproles, etc... However, he will have better stats in the playoffs because DJax won't make it there.

+1

[Melchior]

Didn't desean create like a 40 yard pi call that led to a td? on top of the big catch on the sideline? It's been documented enough, he was open against NO.

He got open a couple of times against NO, but that was once Keenan Lewis went out with an injury. Also, NO's CBs are a far cry from what they're going to see against Seattle.

I mean, I'm not saying he never gets open against press coverage. But he's not built to beat it. When he goes against higher-end press corners, he gets manhandled. It's why they're looking for WR's with long arms/big hands. If you want to get a clean release, the best way to do it is to never let the DB get his hands on you.

He's still good for a couple of big plays a game usually, but you can't throw it to DJax on every play. You need guys who can get open quickly to keep the chains moving.

Again, Cooper is not a better receiver than DJax. That doesn't mean that he doesn't do certain things better than DJax, though.

[Sect 236]

I guess I just misinterpreted what you were trying to say here:

If they counted the playoff game in your glorious stats, Coop would beat him 8 tds to 7, while being thrown to 1/3 less. Try harder, loser. I would say Coop earned his td's too, Jackson's were all go routes where he just won on speed or blown coverages, if you really want to go all sports science...i bet this would be proven by John Breinkus...degree of difficulty Coop wins hands down.

I took that as you discounting everything DeSean did and crediting Cooper with being better. If I misread it, I apologize.

I've told you before, I don't hate Cooper and don't discredit what he did. I just don't think of highly of him as you do. I think Cooper is a #3 WR who played like a #2 for half of last season. You think Cooper is a #1 WR who finally hit his stride last year. People can have different opinions of the same player (especially one with such a short track record of success) and not have an agenda involved.

If Cooper balls out this year, I'll admit I'm wrong. I would love it if he balls out because that most likely means success for the Eagles. I'm just not ready to crown Riley Cooper a star after one good season.

My biggest issue with you on this subject is your hypocrisy. Anyone says anything about Cooper's one good season, and you call them a hater and say they are discrediting the guy, meanwhile, you discredit everything DeSean has done for multiple seasons. When someone says something good about Cooper, you praise their knowledge of sports. When someone says something good about DeSean, you lose your shit and tell them they are wrong or hate Riley Cooper (even when Riley Cooper hasn't been mentioned).

I'm good with having different opinions, I just don't like the way you flip flop the rules and narrative to fit your cause.

[Greenstealth]

You better quit, while you're still allowed to cheer, says the guy who will have internet beers dumped on him for cheering

[weizer]

That's just because so many discredit him on here

I guess I just misinterpreted what you were trying to say here:



I took that as you discounting everything DeSean did and crediting Cooper with being better. If I misread it, I apologize.

I've told you before, I don't hate Cooper and don't discredit what he did. I just don't think of highly of him as you do. I think Cooper is a #3 WR who played like a #2 for half of last season. You think Cooper is a #1 WR who finally hit his stride last year. People can have different opinions of the same player (especially one with such a short track record of success) and not have an agenda involved.

If Cooper balls out this year, I'll admit I'm wrong. I would love it if he balls out because that most likely means success for the Eagles. I'm just not ready to crown Riley Cooper a star after one good season.

My biggest issue with you on this subject is your hypocrisy. Anyone says anything about Cooper's one good season, and you call them a hater and say they are discrediting the guy, meanwhile, you discredit everything DeSean has done for multiple seasons. When someone says something good about Cooper, you praise their knowledge of sports. When someone says something good about DeSean, you lose your shit and tell them they are wrong or hate Riley Cooper (even when Riley Cooper hasn't been mentioned).

I'm good with having different opinions, I just don't like the way you flip flop the rules and narrative to fit your cause.

Somebody needs to defend his play. Where have i flip flopped once? I have stayed true to my cause from day 1. You can't just come in every once and a while and call someone a flip flopper....you have no credibility.

[Sect 236]

Somebody needs to defend his play. Where have i flip flopped once? I have stayed true to my cause from day 1. You can't just come in every once and a while and call someone a flip flopper....you have no credibility.

Not what I meant. You're allowed to bring up Cooper, but others can't. That's flipping the rules. When I said flipping the narrative, I didn't mean you change your stance. I just mean that you're allowed to take the convo to places that others who don't share your opinion are not allowed to take it. You're allowed to discredit what DeSean did but others can't discredit what Cooper did.

That's my only beef.

On the subject of Cooper/DeSean, I'd like to think I have much more credibility than you. I look at both of them subjectively. Neither has ever been or ever will be my favorite Eagle. I look at what they have done on the field (in their careers, not in one season) and the skill sets they each possess and base my opinion on that. You…do not.