what could disappear!

[Eagle Road]

So what are you saying? Its confusing?

Are trying to make a difference in your own little way, or is your investment influenced by the EPA, a department that you seem to detest and/or at odds with in the past.

Here's what I am saying, (probably be a long read) everything I have done has a two-fold reason behind it.


I am all for clean air/water/environment and will do everything in my power THAT MAKES SENSE and is cost effective, to accomplish that on my end.


In other words, for a product to make sense and be accepted it just can't be some turd that a company polished and put a "green" sticker on, it has to work.


To be truly successful it has to offer something else other than just being green, it needs to be better than what it is replacing.


Either by being easier to use, cheaper, longer lasting, more efficient, saving money or man power, etc.


Some people think that just because something meets approval from some group (Gov.) that it automatically is the magic bean, in a lot of circumstances it just isn't true.


I'll give you a good example, remember several years ago when all new buildings requires low gallon toilets? They were suppose to save water because they used less.


The only problem was that because they really didn't work very well, they actually used MORE water than a conventional toilet because you had to flush them two or three times to evacuate all of the waste.


IOW these things need to be a win/win, most of these issues are not blk/white or right/left all or nothing, the truth lies somewhere in the middle, but people that are too far on either side of the common sense middle ground will use what ever twisted numbers they can find to advance there POV, whether it's true or not.


Let's look at wind power, everyone that is for it tells you just how good and CLEAN it is, my question, that I have yet to be able to get answered is prove it.


Sure, wind power itself turning out here in the Kansas wheat fields (and we have a lot of them) are producing clean power, once erected.


What I want to know is, what was the environmental impact to design, produce, transport, erect, service, and maintain that tower?


Here's what I DO KNOW, it takes six oversize semi's to carry/deliver just the main parts of ONE windmill.


Two trucks for the tower, a truck for the gen station and three trucks for the blades, add to this a lot of these come from overseas, add in that cost of a freighter, how about manufacturing? You do realize that a large part of the blades are made up of toxic resins right?


How bout the crane that has to be brought to site to erect it? All of the crews and their trucks running back and forth to service them? I'm not saying that in the long run they are not viable, but I want to know the time on the ROI as far as the environment is concerned.


Does it take 5 years before that windmill breaks even on environmental impact? 10 years? Seems that no one knows, I want to know, it should be the first question asked and proved in a project of this magnitude, not the last one.




I'm going to draw the line there before I get into Gov. subsides of new technologies as I am sure that will be the death knell of this thread.


I'm just not a blind follower, I want proof, in plain English, real numbers, that's all, and it's what we should all want before making major decisions that have unintended circumstances.

[Drama Queen]

Damn, I just got back from the dentist. That's too much info.

Everything you do as a businessman needs to make financial sense, so I can't really fault you for having some resistance, but at the same token, you shouldn't really take a heavy dose of credit for legislation that guided you into environmental decisions. Not really saying you are, but that was my point.

I get what you're saying about "what is the impact" of windmills and other environmental projects, but I don't think that's a good example. Long term development and advancement will always have some costs. No need to over scrutinize it for the sake of argument.

[Eagle Road]

Damn, I just got back from the dentist. That's too much info.

Everything you do as a businessman needs to make financial sense, so I can't really fault you for having some resistance, but at the same token, you shouldn't really take a heavy dose of credit for legislation that guided you into environmental decisions. Not really saying you are, but that was my point.

I get what you're saying about "what is the impact" of windmills and other environmental projects, but I don't think that's a good example. Long term development and advancement will always have some costs. No need to over scrutinize it for the sake of argument.

I understand, and that's cool, I just get tired of people trying to paint me into this corner or that agenda, I have mixed feelings on a lot of the issues of the day and I am far from being able to be marked as one color or another. As far as taking credit, it is what it is, we are a non-recycle county, but we personally recycle what ever we can, No one forced me to spend money for a waste burning furnace, and I could have easily just had my guys idle the trucks instead of APU's.


As far as that goes, I could have easily opted NOT to take freight into California and I could have kept my old non-emission trucks for at least a couple of more years, in fact, in our niche in the industry we are one of the only fleets of 10 units or more that is 100 percent emissions legal, take from it what you want.


BTW, just in case you didn't notice this thread will now magically drop down the board and disappear.


Amazing how this place works!

[Cheesesteak]

I didn't know anyone argues that global warming isn't real, the argument is whether it is man made or not and even if you sell your car and start riding a horse and burning candles if the trend will change.


BTW, can you still see much of the concrete ship off Cape May, or is it all gone It's been twenty some years since I have been there.

I hear snide comments all the time, esp during this past winter with all the storms like "how could global warming be real with all the cold" Real idiots I tell ya. The powers that be should really change it to climate change, people hear "warming" and automatically think that doesn't relate to snow.

[Cheesesteak]

Do you watch Vice? The last episode discusses Texas and how theses fools deny climate change and their "solution" is to pray and throw handfuls of salt into the air

Fin ratards

The episode about Greenland...HOLY CRAP! Talk about sobering info about global warming. We're f'd!!