It's June and the Phils are who I feared they'd be

[Irish George]

...so why does it bother me that they SUCK?

[Two Gap Penetrator]

They're really a small market team

At least they operate like they are. They're not going to go out and pay the Yomiuri Giants $12 mil to purchase a player and then have to give him a big contract. They're small potatoes mother f*ckers. How many Latin American players have they had that were worth a sh*t? Very few. The whole thing is depressing when there's no baseball. I have no baseball. That's where I'm at.

[Bardy]

Small market team? I think they operate the complete opposite of a small market team. Small market teams trade veteran stars for young talent and try to build around young talent.

The Phllies are built around overpaid, over-the-hill players and look like they were built by a GM playing fantasy baseball, but who stopped following the game 5 years ago.

The Phils opening day payroll was 3rd in baseball, behind only the Dodgers and Yankees.

They aren't cheap - they just have a shitty GM and they suck.

[Sect 236]

...so why does it bother me that they SUCK?

Firing Amaro will be the start of not only getting back on track (which will still be a LOOONG process) but will also help cauterize the wound.

It'll feel reminiscent to when FF got fired and Chip came in. We all thought the team had a ways to go to rebuild, but at least getting the smug architect out of town was the start and made us feel better.

[Two Gap Penetrator]

Well that's true.

You're right.

[Two Gap Penetrator]

Everybody loved the guy when he put together the....

...Four Horsemen pitching staff. Now, he's sh*t. Some of those contracts were done before he took over, weren't they? I don't remember. I don't even care anymore.

[Two Gap Penetrator]

They may have a high payroll, but.....

....I don't think they're doing the kinds of things (financially) the Yankees would do to part ways with or acquire players. So let's say that they're not spending their money wisely. Payroll doesn't tell the whole story. There's other money that's being spent (or not spent) by good teams.

[Sect 236]

...Four Horsemen pitching staff. Now, he's sh*t. Some of those contracts were done before he took over, weren't they? I don't remember. I don't even care anymore.

Howard's deal was Amaro. Papeldouche's monster deal was Amaro. He traded Lee in his prime for Aumont and other garbage. The 4 Aces and Pence were fun to talk about, but in the end, it brought us nothing but a barren farm system. He did a baby fire sale of Pence and Victorino and got nothing of value (maybe Tommy Joseph makes it to the bigs one day?) for either of them.

Age, injuries and bad luck sure didn't help, but Ruin Tomorrow could have easily destroyed this franchise without those things.

[Two Gap Penetrator]

Why is it so hard to move Ryan Howard?

He still has value, especially to an AL team. The guy is 2nd in RBI's in the NL. (1st in SO's though) He has 11 HR's. Can't the Phillies eat some of his contract?

[Irish George]

Howard's deal was the right move at the time

Howard's deal was Amaro. Papeldouche's monster deal was Amaro. He traded Lee in his prime for Aumont and other garbage. The 4 Aces and Pence were fun to talk about, but in the end, it brought us nothing but a barren farm system. He did a baby fire sale of Pence and Victorino and got nothing of value (maybe Tommy Joseph makes it to the bigs one day?) for either of them.

Age, injuries and bad luck sure didn't help, but Ruin Tomorrow could have easily destroyed this franchise without those things.

Easy to bash it after he ripped up his knee and his achilles. And he still is driving in a shitload of runs. I dont get why people point to Howard. This team has many worse problems...third base, and especially the bullpen, center field. Just to name a few

[Two Gap Penetrator]

They point to Howard because.....

...first base is probably the easiest position in baseball to replace and like you said we have so many other needs. Ya know, Curtis Granderson was available in the offseason, but Ruin Tommorrow's hands were tied. No money.

[capitaleagle]

I had convinced myself this team might at least be average. I should have known better, gonna be a long summer.

And I agree on Howard -- hindsight is 20/20, but at the time that contract was a good idea: Amaro was showing loyalty to a guy who up to that point had been one of the best power hitters in the game while at the same time ensuring he wouldn't hit free agency. Look at the deals Fielder and Pujols got that off-season. If Howard stayed healthy, "only" five years and $125 million looks like a steal by comparison.

It's hard to imagine worse luck for the team or general manager, as far as that contract goes -- it kicked in at the exact moment he had a catastrophic, rare injury, and he clearly rushed back in 2012 when he should have spent the year rehabbing. Despite it all, as you note, the dude can still mash. He's a deeply flawed player at this point but hardly worthless.

Plenty of things Amaro has done terribly, and I think he needs to go. But I'm not going to blast him for the Howard contract.

[Sect 236]

Easy to bash it after he ripped up his knee and his achilles. And he still is driving in a shitload of runs. I dont get why people point to Howard. This team has many worse problems...third base, and especially the bullpen, center field. Just to name a few

They signed him to the massive deal before 2010. Howard wasn't due to hit FA until after 2011. They had two seasons, two seasons in which Howard posted only 31 and 33 HRs and 108 and 116 RBIs, before they needed to lock him up.

Howard was already on the downslope before he destroyed his leg. His average wasn't getting better, his strikeouts weren't getting better, his HRs were getting worse and his RBIs were getting fewer.

They locked up a 30 year old power hitter for the years that were historically the start of the major decline for power hitters before they needed to. Then, the injury happened. The first year the new contract kicked in, Howard was rehabbing.

It's not like Howard's contract was looked upon favorably at the time it was signed either.

It's not the biggest mistake Ruin Tomorrow has made, but it certainly isn't an argument FOR him as a GM either.

[slag]

Curtis Granderson is exactly what the Phillies don't need.

[slag]

If they had won the World Series they should have won, Amaro wouldn't be as hated because the "all in" moves would have been looked on fondly.

However, I agree, the organization needs a fumigating now.

And I'm thinking all those empty seats will make it happen pretty soon.