"Rectal Rehydration"

[Overbrook]

God help me but I'm with Screamin' on this.

Because when you report it, you are not reporting it to just the American people, it gets reported to the world.

There just isn't a good reason to release this to the world. Nothing good can come of it.

As Cb said, some things are best kept secret.

Even as a big liberal, I still can't give a shit what was done to this scum of humankind. These cowardly cocksuckers who get their rocks off by killing totally innocent people by any means imaginable gave no rights in my eyes.

So torture has been shown to be an unreliable method of information gathering; big deal. They were only reaping what they had sown.

[TerpEagle]

Because when you report it, you are not reporting it to just the American people, it gets reported to the world.

If America is supposed to the beacon of light, how does hiding behind and justifying atrocities impress that image upon the rest of the world?

The premise of this country is accountability and adherence to law and human rights. When those standards aren't met, violators should be held accountable for all to see.

If it's not, then why would anyone, American or otherwise, have faith in the USA? Then we become Russia. Or Iran. Or Qatar. Or any other nation that has different laws for different people and covers up wrong doing to avoid bad PR.

And I'm not saying that the US doesn't already have that occurring. It's the same issue being unveiled regarding police excess of power right now. Bad behavior is excused because some end is justified.

But covering things up rather than holding people/groups accountable is far more damaging in my opinion. That type of behavior gives others a justified reason to dislike us.

[TerpEagle]

There just isn't a good reason to release this to the world. Nothing good can come of it.

As Cb said, some things are best kept secret.

Even as a big liberal, I still can't give a shit what was done to this scum of humankind. These cowardly cocksuckers who get their rocks off by killing totally innocent people by any means imaginable gave no rights in my eyes.

So torture has been shown to be an unreliable method of information gathering; big deal. They were only reaping what they had sown.

What should be kept secret, exactly?

If Americans are captured in war and now tortured, will you adhere to the philosophy that they're only reaping what we've sown?

Also, it appears that your stance is based on the idea that America has never been an aggressor therefore deserves no retaliation.

America has been an aggressor or facilitator of aggression numerous times, that's why many people don't like us.

Now, by performing, justifying and/or ignoring human rights violations that America has committed it perpetuates that cycle. It's hard to claim the moral high ground if you're committing immoral acts.

[AthensEagle]

Whatever. If it doesn't involve testicles and electricity I'm not even buying into torture.

[Riccardo]

huh?

Well, when shit like this happens and a significant portion of the country thinks it should be kept quiet or was necessary it's a wonder why.
.

It's a wonder why? Do you have kids and/or a family? Some of us think the government trying to keep us safe is more important than whether some interrogation tactic is deemed "torture" by whatever standard

[bobbyuk]

I noticed in the Daily Mail where the bastions of human rights--namely China--where you can only have one child by law and where they roll over demonstrating students with tanks--Russia--where they send hitmen to assasinate dissidents--Iran--need there more to be said about those guys--have come out and blasted the US over this. Personally, I could give a shit what those governments think. The fact is that 3,000 people of ALL nationalities were killed on 9/11--and if it takes fire to fight fire then I am all for it. I spent 17 years in the Air Force and was a part of the first Gulf War. In this country, they want to hang the flag of Islam over Downing Street; there are countles stories every day about British Muslims either going to fight for ISIS or those that are there are being killed. These monsters throw people off of buildings for being gay and they are more likely to kill an American as to look at one. Nope, they don't preach to me about my country's willingness to torture people to get information to stop more atrocities from happening. Do you know how close I was to getting killed here in London on 7/7? If I hadn't arranged to come in later, I would have been on the Aldgate train that exploded. Luckily, I swiched shifts with one of my colleagues.

[Overbrook]

Level of agreement zero percent

What should be kept secret, exactly?

If Americans are captured in war and now tortured, will you adhere to the philosophy that they're only reaping what we've sown?

Also, it appears that your stance is based on the idea that America has never been an aggressor therefore deserves no retaliation.

America has been an aggressor or facilitator of aggression numerous times, that's why many people don't like us.

Now, by performing, justifying and/or ignoring human rights violations that America has committed it perpetuates that cycle. It's hard to claim the moral high ground if you're committing immoral acts.

One huge difference here. This is not waging war, regardless of being an aggressor or a defenders.

I'll repeat what I said above. These are terrorists, the quintessential cowards of the world who kill totally innocent people just for the fuck of it.

Fuck them and anyone who has any connection to them.

Try to explain your philosophy to the survivors of 9/11, or of one of their bus stop bombings in the Middle East, or subway/marketplace bombings in Europe.
I think you're looking at this happenng in a vacuum, not the real world.

[Melchior]

One huge difference here. This is not waging war, regardless of being an aggressor or a defenders.

I'll repeat what I said above. These are terrorists, the quintessential cowards of the world who kill totally innocent people just for the fuck of it.

Fuck them and anyone who has any connection to them.

Try to explain your philosophy to the survivors of 9/11, or of one of their bus stop bombings in the Middle East, or subway/marketplace bombings in Europe.
I think you're looking at this happenng in a vacuum, not the real world.

Like we do with drone strikes?

[TerpEagle]

One huge difference here. This is not waging war, regardless of being an aggressor or a defenders.

I'll repeat what I said above. These are terrorists, the quintessential cowards of the world who kill totally innocent people just for the fuck of it.

Fuck them and anyone who has any connection to them.

Try to explain your philosophy to the survivors of 9/11, or of one of their bus stop bombings in the Middle East, or subway/marketplace bombings in Europe.
I think you're looking at this happenng in a vacuum, not the real world.

They're not killing for the fuck of it, they're killing for power. They're committing atrocities to try to gain that power, but that's the desire.

If America is supposed to represent morality, committing and/or condoning atrocities ourselves diminishes that significantly.

I'm not justifying actions of terrorists, but America should be held to a higher standard.

A mentality of "you fucked with me so I'm going to fuck with you" represents nothing but revenge. It's not justice. it's not a way to improve our safety. The only effect it has is hedonistic because some people feel that we got them back.

If that's our philosophy then we're ordinary, not exceptional.

[TerpEagle]

I noticed in the Daily Mail where the bastions of human rights--namely China--where you can only have one child by law and where they roll over demonstrating students with tanks--Russia--where they send hitmen to assasinate dissidents--Iran--need there more to be said about those guys--have come out and blasted the US over this. Personally, I could give a shit what those governments think. The fact is that 3,000 people of ALL nationalities were killed on 9/11--and if it takes fire to fight fire then I am all for it. I spent 17 years in the Air Force and was a part of the first Gulf War. In this country, they want to hang the flag of Islam over Downing Street; there are countles stories every day about British Muslims either going to fight for ISIS or those that are there are being killed. These monsters throw people off of buildings for being gay and they are more likely to kill an American as to look at one. Nope, they don't preach to me about my country's willingness to torture people to get information to stop more atrocities from happening. Do you know how close I was to getting killed here in London on 7/7? If I hadn't arranged to come in later, I would have been on the Aldgate train that exploded. Luckily, I swiched shifts with one of my colleagues.

Do you think America is better than those countries and should act as such? I do.

And, the information that was gotten wasn't any good. So, maybe if it actual was useful there is a sliver of justification. But it wasn't.

[TerpEagle]

Like we do with drone strikes?

It's different. Those people are less innocent because they're not us.

[Riccardo]

says a biased source

And, the information that was gotten wasn't any good. So, maybe if it actual was useful there is a sliver of justification. But it wasn't.

CIA disagrees and says it led to KSM and OBL courier.

[Riccardo]

good point

So according to terp, capturing suspected terrorists and "torturing" them for Intel is a moral outrage. But blowing them up (and everyone around them) via remote-controlled toy planes as we do now, eh that's fine.

[TerpEagle]

It's a wonder why? Do you have kids and/or a family? Some of us think the government trying to keep us safe is more important than whether some interrogation tactic is deemed "torture" by whatever standard

Some of us think the government trying to keep us safe is more important than the ability to keep guns in our homes which is deemed more dangerous by whatever standard.

Some of us think the government trying to keep us safe is more important than due process for suspects who are deemed dangerous by whatever standard.

Some of us think the government trying to keep us safe is more important than regulating fracking which is deemed dangerous by whatever standard.

Well, let's just trust the government shall we. They're trying to keep us safe. It's been noted numerous times that this method didn't do anything to keep us safe, but so what.

[TerpEagle]

CIA disagrees and says it led to KSM and OBL courier.

The CIA, being charged with torture and ineffective tactics, isn't biased here?

But, we should trust the CIA. They're a forthright organization.