this may be the worst rule change ever

[art vandelay]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...-first-slides/

[Ground_Meat]

WHY are they doing this? This season might be a really rough season as far as flags are concerned. That HOF game was abysmal.

[Ground_Meat]

“...Imagine it’s fourth-and-goal in the final seconds of the game, a quarterback whose team trails by five points drops back to pass, then sees an opening in the middle of the field, runs toward the end zone, and just as a linebacker approaches at the 1-yard line the quarterback dives head-first into the end zone. That won’t be a game-winning touchdown anymore. It will be the quarterback giving himself up at the 1-yard line. The first time that happens, there’s going to be outrage from players, coaches and fans of the losing team.”

...there’s just NO WAY they can allow this.

[slag]

If they require the referee to determine if the play was a "give up" versus an actual run, it's just as fucked as if they call any dive by a qb a "give up" ... another stupid rule making referees more important than players.

[slag]

PS - I think the article is extremely unclear ... it appears to say the dive is only a "give up" if the circumstances make the ref think it's a "give up" ... but then commentary is made that involves scenarios in which a qb is presumed to be "giving up" any time he dives.

I'm not sure which is the actual rule but both are ripe for controversy ... the Wentz play on which he got hurt is right in the wheelhouse of this new shit.

[art vandelay]

wentz play was the first that i thought of. that shouldn't be ruled dead.

sounds like those plays where vick dove forward and fumbled (one against pittsburgh comes to mind) would be ruled dead.

[slag]

I'm unclear about whether the referee decides if it's a run or a give up.

The slide is automatically a give up ... the description of the rule makes it unclear regarding the dive, but the scenarios of concern in the same article make it appear that the dive or the slide are automatic give ups when the qb does it.

[slag]

PS - which begs the question ... does that mean its a penalty if a defender hits a diving QB?

Or is there a determination, based on the circumstances, of whether he's hittable still because it's not a "give up"?

And, even if the rule is the latter, there will be borderline situations that cause controversy.

Stupid fucking rule regardless.

[slag]

I just looked up another article on this.

http://dailydolphin.blog.palmbeachpo...erback-slides/

It appears that the rule is not new ... it's merely a more stringent enforcement of an existing rule that says the ball is dead when a runner gives himself up, whether diving or sliding.

So, it's pretty clear that the ref reads the runner's mind on whether a dive is a give up or not (whereas with a slide, it was automatically presumed).

[art vandelay]

that article does a much better job explaining it than the PFT article. the PFT article made it sound like a dive forward would be like a ball-carrier's helmet coming off - play dead at the spot of the dive.

now it just sounds like a QB won't get additional yards when diving forward instead of sliding. the wentz play would still be alive. kind of interesting that this would no longer be a fumble though: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-h...es-on-4th-down

[slag]

Again ... it appears the referee has to determine, based on the circumstances, if he thinks the diver is giving himself up or not.

Thus, any runner (QB or otherwise) can still get forward progress on a dive if the ref does not feel he was giving himself up.

This means that when a runner, qb or otherwise, is trying to get a first down or TD and launches himself toward the front stick or goal line ... the ref decides if it was a run or not and, thus, impacts whether a first down or TD is obtained or not.

And with the latest Supreme Court decision, many more legal bettors will be able to scream fix.

[jrachiever]

Some articles indicated that the ball is now dead from where the head first dive begins, which I don't think is the case. The only time this new enforcement of the rule would change things is when a player dives head first and isn't touched before hitting the ground. In those cases, forward progress stops with ground contact instead of when they're first touched.

[slag]

What?