FF is complaining Ford wasn’t warned by official ......

[Overbrook]

that he was offside.

Huh?

Damn, one would think that FF would be used to throwing away a championship game. Almost second nature to the putz.

[McCarthy12]

Is that a thing?

I remember part of the argument about Jeffery being lined up illegally during the Philly Special was that he checked with the line judge who said he was ok. Is it normal for the officials to proactively tell a player they are line up incorrectly? That seems odd.

Either way, I don't blame Reid. I would think the most basic task a lineman has on any given play, beginning in Pee Wee football, is lining up onside. Just gotta look for the football, no?

[JuTMSY4]

apparently it is

but not on an individual play:

https://sports.yahoo.com/andy-reid-w...045122729.html

Andy Reid: Ford wasn’t warned he was offside
“Normally, you’re warned and the coach is warned if somebody is doing that before they throw it in a game of that magnitude,” Reid told reporters. “But they did. And he didn’t waste any time in doing it.

“He didn’t wait until the interception to throw it. He had his hand on his flag right from the get go, and he saw it from his angle, and he thought it was the call.”

Neutral zone infraction rule
Section 3 of the NFL rule book entry on neutral zone infractions addresses that a player who has been warned about infractions is to be automatically penalized, even if he corrects his illegal position prior to the snap.

A player, after he has received a warning, enters into the neutral zone. It is a foul, even if he returns to a legal position prior to the snap without contacting an opponent or causing a reaction (movement) by an offensive player in close proximity.

What isn’t addressed there and what isn’t clear to the viewer is how and when players are warned. Whatever that process is, Reid appears to believe Ford was not afforded a warning he believed he was due.

[CbEagle]

Just face it FF you lost another championship, don't blame the refs for your players stupidity.

[McCarthy12]

The text of the rule is confusing. It makes it sound like a penalty has occurred the second the warning is given. Like, the warning isn't so much of a warning as it is advanced notice that the official can throw the flag.

Reid's explanation - "the ref didn't even wait for the interception" - seems to reinforce that that the refs can kind of handle it however they choose: throw the flag right away, give the guy a chance to get back on and let it go, wait and see if the play is meaningful (this is the most troubling but also what Reid seems to indicate he expected the ref to do), etc.

I'm probably misinterpreting, but it sounds like an awful lot of discretion to give folks who are struggling to do their jobs as it is.

[JuTMSY4]

I think what FF is saying is:

1) Dee Ford was not warned that he ever was lining up in the neutral zone

2) The refs are required, by rule, to warn players if they are going to flag a neutral zone infraction at the snap (which is what apparently occurred, I forget the timing of the flag).

3) if the refs are going to flag it immediately, they need to warn the player, by rule, first.

[McCarthy12]

Well if Reid is interpreting the rule correctly, then it is a bad rule. You can't require the officials to tell players they aren't lining correctly. That's football 101. It's different if the player asks for confirmation. The notion that in the few seconds between when the players line up and the ball is snapped, the official has to warn any player lined up offsides in order to then throw a flag, is silly IMO.

[DEERSPINE GUY]

I remember part of the argument about Jeffery being lined up illegally during the Philly Special was that he checked with the line judge who said he was ok. Is it normal for the officials to proactively tell a player they are line up incorrectly? That seems odd.

Either way, I don't blame Reid. I would think the most basic task a lineman has on any given play, beginning in Pee Wee football, is lining up onside. Just gotta look for the football, no?

WIDEOUTS ASK QUIT OFTEN, BUT I'VE NEVER SEEN A DEFENSIVE PLAYER ASK.

COME ON ANDY, FORD FUCKED UP.

[3rd & Inches]

That’s lame. His dumbass was in 3 points stance staring at the center.

[art vandelay]

That is a really weird rule. I always thought that lining up in the neutral zone and offsides were penalties for the same reason - the defense is on the wrong side of the LOS when the ball is snapped. Letting a player get by with a warning for that seems weird.

Maybe it makes sense to just warn a CB since they're further from the ball (similarly to how it made sense for Jeffery to check with the ref on the Philly Special), but if a DE is lined a foot on the wrong side of the ball, that's too much of an advantage. Has to be called.

I think Reid may be misinterpreting "A player, after he has received a warning, enters into the neutral zone. It is a foul, even if he returns to a legal position prior to the snap without contacting an opponent." That doesn't mean that a player is afforded a warning. It means that if a player has received a warning, and he lines up in the neutral zone again, he's not allowed to get back on the right side of the ball the way that players who jump offsides are allowed.

edit: Do you guys remember when Lane Johnson's illegal formation penalty wiped out a TD against the Chargers in 2013? Apparently the refs warned him before they called that. They weren't required to warn him, but that's what they usually do. Seems similar.

[McCarthy12]

Maybe they should start giving warnings for everything.

"Hey, number 67, you're holding!"

"Here comes the ball number 21, better turn around, don't touch him!"

[slag]

Reid didn't use the word "even" when stating how the ref didn't wait for the interception ... and I'm not sure he meant that the official had to option to see what the play was before throwing the flag.

What I think Reid was saying was that the guy didn't see the impact of the play and then fuck the Chiefs ... he's saying the guy called the offsides before he knew what the play was and didn't do it in a biased way ... ie. he making sure no one interpreted what he was saying as a suggestion that the ref was biased.

I cannot believe referees traditionally wait to see if the play is important before calling an offsides foul if they haven't given a warning.

[Corkey_for_President]

I think his confusion - and the discussions in this thread and elsewhere - best illustrate the point that NFL rules and officiating are a CLUSTERFUCK.

[slag]

That rule is a head scratcher ... about which I had no idea until this thread.

[Corkey_for_President]

We've all seen the "check with me" stuff from WRs and refs to make sure they're ok with lining up. Warnings and such for DLs? New one? I wonder if they have similar warnings for OL? for false starts? Crazy...