Time to bury Hugh Douglas now....

[DJCon57]

It is much bigger than ONE word, it is always pushed to an "us against you" analogy, why?

I'm not sure...
You should ask Cooper why he wanted to fight "all the niggers in here" instead of just calling the specific security guard an asshole.

I'm not sure why he decided to make it a race issue.

[Eagle In Ohio]

I can't speak for all Black people

I would have to agree with your answer on the first question, however we are world's apart on the second answer, although I was raised with that word used on occasion, I at an early age made a conscious effort to never use it again.

It was a situation very similar to yours, and I think I felt worse and beat myself up over it more than my friend ever would have, that was over 40 years ago.

But I DO see labeling ALL Whites for the sins of a select few many years ago as a MUCH bigger issue than being able to use or not use a word.

Maybe this is the part where you may not be able to grasp my feelings on the subject because you have never walked in my shoes, and again, I say that with all sincerity.

I will give you an example of resent times, a brown man, shoots a Black kid, and regardless of who was right wrong or indifferent, it becomes a Black/ White issue, HOW?

This agenda was and is being pushed by the "supposed" leaders of the Black community, I say supposed because I have Black friends that would be the first to tell you that Jackson, Sharpton, and others in no way shape or form speak for them.

It is much bigger than ONE word, it is always pushed to an "us against you" analogy, why?


BTW, EIO, thanks for the civil discussion.

but from my point of view, it's an issue of race, but it goes deeper than that. Trayvon Martin was not an isolated incident. There is a history of Black men being murdered in this country and no one faces any consequences for those murders. You could probably start it at Emmitt Till, but it goes way beyond that. I believe that in the Black community, there is a sense that when our youth or young Black men are murdered, it doesn't seem to matter as much as when a White youth is. I would invite you to search the names Amadou Diallo, Sean Bell, and Timothy Stansbury. Unarmed Black men who were killed at the hands of law enforcement. Now, I realize that the Trayvon case wasn't connected to law enforcement, but the premise is the same. You can look at Rodney King as well, so when Zimmerman got off, Black people saw this and said "here we go again". so in that sense, we alomst HAVE to look at it as an us against you situation, because there's no confidence that our justice system will give us fair and equal treatment.

I am always up for a civil discussion/debate. Thank you for doing the same.

[Eagle Road]

but from my point of view, it's an issue of race, but it goes deeper than that. Trayvon Martin was not an isolated incident. There is a history of Black men being murdered in this country and no one faces any consequences for those murders. You could probably start it at Emmitt Till, but it goes way beyond that. I believe that in the Black community, there is a sense that when our youth or young Black men are murdered, it doesn't seem to matter as much as when a White youth is. I would invite you to search the names Amadou Diallo, Sean Bell, and Timothy Stansbury. Unarmed Black men who were killed at the hands of law enforcement. Now, I realize that the Trayvon case wasn't connected to law enforcement, but the premise is the same. You can look at Rodney King as well, so when Zimmerman got off, Black people saw this and said "here we go again". so in that sense, we alomst HAVE to look at it as an us against you situation, because there's no confidence that our justice system will give us fair and equal treatment.

I am always up for a civil discussion/debate. Thank you for doing the same.

Good points all, but I want you to take a look at what I bolded out, when is the Black community itself, going to do something about the Black on Black crime that is much more prevalent in this country?

No, I am not copping out here, or trying to diminish the fact that what you speak of has happened/still happens.

I know that numbers have been batted around about all of the kids killed just in Chicago DURING the Martin/Zimmerman trial, these are facts and statistics, not just pulled out of thin air.

When does the black community start listing to real Black leaders that have done great things with their lives? I'm sure you have listened to the Ben Carsons and Bill Cosby's of the world, why aren't these people held up as examples?


If I am out of line here, say so, you won't offend me, it's just that some of these things have always bothered me and I have asked several questions, but it seems answers are elusive at best.

[Eagle In Ohio]

You're not out of line, that's a totally valid question

Good points all, but I want you to take a look at what I bolded out, when is the Black community itself, going to do something about the Black on Black crime that is much more prevalent in this country?

No, I am not copping out here, or trying to diminish the fact that what you speak of has happened/still happens.

I know that numbers have been batted around about all of the kids killed just in Chicago DURING the Martin/Zimmerman trial, these are facts and statistics, not just pulled out of thin air.

When does the black community start listing to real Black leaders that have done great things with their lives? I'm sure you have listened to the Ben Carsons and Bill Cosby's of the world, why aren't these people held up as examples?


If I am out of line here, say so, you won't offend me, it's just that some of these things have always bothered me and I have asked several questions, but it seems answers are elusive at best.

Black people DO need to try and get a handle on the Black on Black crime in our neighborhoods. It's certainly an issue. Sadly, a lot of Black people tend to get offended when you have someone who could be held up as a Black leader like Bill Cosby, actually tell us about ourselves and chastise us when we're doing wrong. I am as big of a fan of hip-hop culture than anyone, but I agree with Cosby when he says that young Black men need to pull their pants up and start to look presentable (among other things). It's the truth, but a lot of times when you have someone who has a national voice who might say that kind of stuff, they're looked at as a sellout or an Uncle Tom, when in reality, they're actually right. There are many, many, community activists in the Black community on a grassroots level, trying to bring peace and unity to our streets. Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it's not happening.

[J Con]

and stop taking offense to white people calling them n*****s, is the day that Jim Crow comes back into effect.

Its not my place as a white person to say get over it but it seems to me there will always be racists and these ignoramuses will always use this word as a weapon. It is in fact their easiest and most powerful weapon. Two weeks of debate and outrage only confirms this, and in fact empowers the effect of the word. So what is the solution? Continue to give the racists the reaction they want when they use the word or not? Maybe a few more generations from now the word will start to lose it's damaging effects but I think ultimately its in the hands of the black community. Just a thought.

[TerpEagle]

Good points all, but I want you to take a look at what I bolded out, when is the Black community itself, going to do something about the Black on Black crime that is much more prevalent in this country

When is the white community going to address white on white murders? Most murders are intraracial.

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf

Most murders were intraracial
From 1980 through 2008—
84% of white victims were killed by whites.
93% of black victims were killed by blacks.

Stranger homicides were more likely to cross racial lines than homicides involving friends or acquaintances

For homicides committed by—

a stranger to the victim, 26.7% were interracial
a friend or acquaintance of the victim, 9.7% were interracial

[Eagle Road]

Black people DO need to try and get a handle on the Black on Black crime in our neighborhoods. It's certainly an issue. Sadly, a lot of Black people tend to get offended when you have someone who could be held up as a Black leader like Bill Cosby, actually tell us about ourselves and chastise us when we're doing wrong. I am as big of a fan of hip-hop culture than anyone, but I agree with Cosby when he says that young Black men need to pull their pants up and start to look presentable (among other things). It's the truth, but a lot of times when you have someone who has a national voice who might say that kind of stuff, they're looked at as a sellout or an Uncle Tom, when in reality, they're actually right. There are many, many, community activists in the Black community on a grassroots level, trying to bring peace and unity to our streets. Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it's not happening.

Gotcha, appreciate the insight, now I have some research to do on the names you gave me.

Have a good one.

Stan

[Eagle In Ohio]

Ok

Gotcha, appreciate the insight, now I have some research to do on the names you gave me.

Have a good one.

Stan

Good talking with you.

[Eagle Road]

When is the white community going to address white on white murders? Most murders are intraracial.

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf

Most murders were intraracial
From 1980 through 2008—
84% of white victims were killed by whites.
93% of black victims were killed by blacks.

Stranger homicides were more likely to cross racial lines than homicides involving friends or acquaintances

For homicides committed by—

a stranger to the victim, 26.7% were interracial
a friend or acquaintance of the victim, 9.7% were interracial

Terp, absolutely agree, but don't stop there with percentages, percentages don't tell the whole story and can be very misleading, what are the NUMBERS for each given category? Just curious.

[Eagle Road]

Good talking with you.

Same here bud, gotta go, got work to do, lol

[TerpEagle]

Terp, absolutely agree, but don't stop there with percentages, since I don't know where you got those stats, what are the NUMBERS for each given category? Just curious.

Murders are higher among black populations - especially drug related murders. That link has a lot of demographic information on murder that is interesting.

However, a comment suggesting that black people need to get a handle on or do something about black-on-black crime is problematic.

First of all, it suggests that there is an intrinsic reason for the crime when most of it is due to the environment. There are a lot of reasons that crime is higher in black communities, much of it being socio-economic and ridiculous laws having to do with the war on drugs.

Crime in general is typically higher in an community that suffers socio-economically. In the United States, there is a disproportionate number of black communities in that suffer socio-economically compared to the overall population demographics.

The second is that it promotes separation of people based on demographics and race. Black-on-black crime in America isn't a black problem. It's an American problem.

[TerpEagle]

Its not my place as a white person to say get over it but it seems to me there will always be racists and these ignoramuses will always use this word as a weapon. It is in fact their easiest and most powerful weapon. Two weeks of debate and outrage only confirms this, and in fact empowers the effect of the word. So what is the solution? Continue to give the racists the reaction they want when they use the word or not? Maybe a few more generations from now the word will start to lose it's damaging effects but I think ultimately its in the hands of the black community. Just a thought.

This country does a poor job addressing race and race relations. It consists of uproar over overt racism and tolerance or willful ignorance over subtle racism. Both work to prevent actual conversations.