The birthplace of the Constitution is going to save the day!

[Maniac]

My case against ACA is this, I have always been self-employed, (35 years anyway) and I have always paid my own way.

For as long as I can remember we have had the same BC/BS premium policy, it was expensive, but I thought worth it.

A couple of years ago, my wife was diagnosed with early stage MS, the drugs she takes to keep this at bay, are to say the least, crazy expensive, probably more than most people on here take home a month.

Now I get a letter telling me that because of some changes and the ACA program, that BC/BS will no longer offer this type of protection.

I have a friend who is in a similar situation, their LI has MORE than doubled, show me where ACA, and the coming changes are going to be a good thing for me?

Check the exchange. Since you're on an individual policy and not a group, I doubt you were getting that great a deal. I wouldn't be surprised if you couldn't find something as good or better. You're going to have to do some math on premiums/deductibles. Sounds like maybe you should be looking at a higher premium/low deductible (platinum) plan if you are getting killed by the drug cost. I have read there are some MS patients that might pay more under ACA. But the fact that you aren't in a group should mean ACA will be better for you I think.

If you were costing your insurance company money, they were going to nail you eventually anyway.

If the ACA is a bust for most people, the 2016 elections will flip everything anyway and things will change.

[Eagle Road]

Check the exchange. Since you're on an individual policy and not a group, I doubt you were getting that great a deal. I wouldn't be surprised if you couldn't find something as good or better. You're going to have to do some math on premiums/deductibles. Sounds like maybe you should be looking at a higher premium/low deductible (platinum) plan if you are getting killed by the drug cost. I have read there are some MS patients that might pay more under ACA. But the fact that you aren't in a group should mean ACA will be better for you I think.

If you were costing your insurance company money, they were going to nail you eventually anyway.

If the ACA is a bust for most people, the 2016 elections will flip everything anyway and things will change.

Your right, and by that time my old policy will be long gone. I will check out the exchanges, but as I said, my friend in Cali. has gone up over double, he is in the same situation that I am as far as self-employed and wife with med, issues.

His exchange rates were posted early, as when I got this letter Kansas exchange was not up.

But in the past, usually, when you wind up changing things, the price if lower, doesn't stay there long.

[FuriousXGeorge]

All of this twaddle about unfairness is just a smokescreen. The demand was total defunding of Obamacare until the Senate said no and five seconds later the demand became delaying for a year until the Senate said no and then five seconds later the complaint became this random shit about unfairness so they had an excuse to have a massive toddler tantrum and shut down the government.

If you had asked the Republicans if it was a good idea to exempt the groups that have been exempted before this point they would have said yes and taken it as a victory if they forced Obama to do so.

[Eagle Road]

All of this twaddle about unfairness is just a smokescreen. The demand was total defunding of Obamacare until the Senate said no and five seconds later the demand became delaying for a year until the Senate said no and then five seconds later the complaint became this random shit about unfairness so they had an excuse to have a massive toddler tantrum and shut down the government.

If you had asked the Republicans if it was a good idea to exempt the groups that have been exempted before this point they would have said yes and taken it as a victory if they forced Obama to do so.

Ok, and if all of this doubles my cost, who do I blame?

[FuriousXGeorge]

Ok, and if all of this doubles my cost, who do I blame?

Your dumbshit political philosophy for not supporting single payer.

[Eagle Road]

Your dumbshit political philosophy for not supporting single payer.

You do understand the term "single payer" correct.

[noguano]

Runyan saving the day!

Oh yeah!!!

[FuriousXGeorge]

You do understand the term "single payer" correct.

Do you understand the term, "Obamacare is a Heritage Foundation conservative plan offered as an alternative to Government run healthcare. This is why a Republican Presidential candidate implemented the same policy at the state level. The only reason it was implemented instead of a more liberal plan is because conservatives, even conservative Democrats, were only willing to vote for a plan that would maintain free market profit motives in the system. As your costs go up, feel free to thank them for making sure someone could enrich themselves off your healthcare dollars."

[Eagle Road]

Do you understand the term, "Obamacare is a Heritage Foundation conservative plan offered as an alternative to Government run healthcare. This is why a Republican Presidential candidate implemented the same policy at the state level. The only reason it was implemented instead of a more liberal plan is because conservatives, even conservative Democrats, were only willing to vote for a plan that would maintain free market profit motives in the system. As your costs go up, feel free to thank them for making sure someone could enrich themselves off your healthcare dollars."

Your dumbshit political philosophy for not supporting single payer.


So you think that a SP system, that the government has full control of, would be better than what we have had all of our lives?

Interesting.

The LAST place I want any more of my money to go to is the Federal Government.

[FuriousXGeorge]

Your dumbshit political philosophy for not supporting single payer.


So you think that a SP system, that the government has full control of, would be better than what we have had all of our lives?

Interesting.

The LAST place I want any more of my money to go to is the Federal Government.

Yes, it would be better. There is a reason our current system pays way more per capita than the Canadian system and leaves patients less satisfied.

(And that reason is dumbshit conservatism)

But hey, I haven't had healthcare all of my life because I haven't always been able to afford it. So that's an easy question for me and the millions who have been in that situation to answer.

[Eagle Road]

Yes, it would be better. There is a reason our current system pays way more per capita than the Canadian system and leaves patients less satisfied.

(And that reason is dumbshit conservatism)

But hey, I haven't had healthcare my all of my life because I haven't always been able to afford it. So that's an easy question for me and the millions who have been in that situation to answer.

Could you not afford it, or was it not a high priority?

[Eagle Road]

[QUOTE=FuriousXGeorge;1721370]Yes, it would be better. There is a reason our current system pays way more per capita than the Canadian system and leaves patients less satisfied.

This would seem to contradict your position?


Daily Caller News Foundation

Report: Thousands fled Canada for health care in 2011
3:17 PM 07/11/2012







A Canadian study released Wednesday found that many provinces in our neighbor to the north have seen patients fleeing the country and opting for medical treatment in the United States.

The nonpartisan Fraser Institute reported that 46,159 Canadians sought medical treatment outside of Canada in 2011, as wait times increased 104 percent — more than double — compared with statistics from 1993.

Specialist physicians surveyed across 12 specialties and 10 provinces reported an average total wait time of 19 weeks between the time a general practitioner refers a patient and the time a specialist provides elective treatment — the longest they have ever recorded.


In 2011, Canadians enrolled in the nation’s government-dominated health service waited long periods of time for an estimated 941,321 procedures. As many as 2.8 percent of Canadians were waiting for treatment at any given time, according to the Institute.

“In some cases, these patients needed to leave Canada due to a lack of available resources or a lack of appropriate procedure/technology,” according to the Institute. “In others, their departure will have been driven by a desire to return more quickly to their lives, to seek out superior quality care, or perhaps to save their own lives or avoid the risk of disability.”

Increases in the number of patients leaving Canada for treatment were seen in seven of the ten Canadian provinces: British Columbia, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island, and Newfoundland and Labrador.

“Some of these patients will have been sent out of country by the public health care system due to a lack of available resources or the fact that some procedures or equipment are not provided
in their home jurisdiction,” the report concluded.

“Others will have chosen to leave Canada in response to concerns about quality … to avoid some of the adverse medical consequences of waiting for care such as worsening of their condition, poorer outcomes following treatment, disability, or death … or simply to avoid delay.”


Canada’s median wait time for treatment after consultation with a specialist also increased in 2011, from 9.3 weeks to 9.5 weeks. The Fraser Institute’s report concluded that the nation’s doctors don’t like the status quo any more than their patients..

“[P]hysicians themselves believe that Canadians wait nearly 3 weeks longer than what they consider is clinically ‘reasonable’ for elective treatment after an appointment with a specialist,” according to the report. (RELATED: 83 percent of doctors have considered quitting over Obamacare, survey finds)

Each year the Institute conducts a survey asking doctors across 12 major medical specialties in Canada what percentage of their patients have received non-emergency care outside of Canada in the previous 12 months. In 2011, approximately one percent of all Canadian patients were estimated to have received non-emergency care outside their home country.



Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/07/11/re...#ixzz2gash8Amf

[FuriousXGeorge]

Could you not afford it, or was it not a high priority?

[QUOTE=Eagle Road;1721372]

Yes, it would be better. There is a reason our current system pays way more per capita than the Canadian system and leaves patients less satisfied.

This would seem to contradict your position?


Daily Caller News Foundation

Report: Thousands fled Canada for health care in 2011
3:17 PM 07/11/2012







A Canadian study released Wednesday found that many provinces in our neighbor to the north have seen patients fleeing the country and opting for medical treatment in the United States.

The nonpartisan Fraser Institute reported that 46,159 Canadians sought medical treatment outside of Canada in 2011, as wait times increased 104 percent — more than double — compared with statistics from 1993.

Specialist physicians surveyed across 12 specialties and 10 provinces reported an average total wait time of 19 weeks between the time a general practitioner refers a patient and the time a specialist provides elective treatment — the longest they have ever recorded.


In 2011, Canadians enrolled in the nation’s government-dominated health service waited long periods of time for an estimated 941,321 procedures. As many as 2.8 percent of Canadians were waiting for treatment at any given time, according to the Institute.

“In some cases, these patients needed to leave Canada due to a lack of available resources or a lack of appropriate procedure/technology,” according to the Institute. “In others, their departure will have been driven by a desire to return more quickly to their lives, to seek out superior quality care, or perhaps to save their own lives or avoid the risk of disability.”

Increases in the number of patients leaving Canada for treatment were seen in seven of the ten Canadian provinces: British Columbia, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island, and Newfoundland and Labrador.

“Some of these patients will have been sent out of country by the public health care system due to a lack of available resources or the fact that some procedures or equipment are not provided
in their home jurisdiction,” the report concluded.

“Others will have chosen to leave Canada in response to concerns about quality … to avoid some of the adverse medical consequences of waiting for care such as worsening of their condition, poorer outcomes following treatment, disability, or death … or simply to avoid delay.”


Canada’s median wait time for treatment after consultation with a specialist also increased in 2011, from 9.3 weeks to 9.5 weeks. The Fraser Institute’s report concluded that the nation’s doctors don’t like the status quo any more than their patients..

“[P]hysicians themselves believe that Canadians wait nearly 3 weeks longer than what they consider is clinically ‘reasonable’ for elective treatment after an appointment with a specialist,” according to the report. (RELATED: 83 percent of doctors have considered quitting over Obamacare, survey finds)

Each year the Institute conducts a survey asking doctors across 12 major medical specialties in Canada what percentage of their patients have received non-emergency care outside of Canada in the previous 12 months. In 2011, approximately one percent of all Canadian patients were estimated to have received non-emergency care outside their home country.



Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/07/11/re...#ixzz2gash8Amf

[Eagle Road]

[QUOTE=FuriousXGeorge;1721373]

Are you disabled, or lazy?

[FuriousXGeorge]

[QUOTE=Eagle Road;1721374]

Are you disabled, or lazy?

Let me see if I understand this right. You are arguing the American system should be judged not on how it serves the American lower and middle classes, but by how it serves affluent international patients? I don't think anyone denies that those who can afford it can find the best doctors in the world in the US. However, that means nothing to those who can't see those doctors so your Canadians can get the treatment instead.