The birthplace of the Constitution is going to save the day!

[TerpEagle]

Huh, sounds just like the exchange on the floor about ratifying ACA, pssst, let's hurry up and pass this damn thing before somebody really does read it.:D

Except those people were choosing which house to buy and outvoted the minority. Then, new investors showed up and were still the minority on which house to buy. Then, the minority had the house inspected only to be told that outside of disagreements over the color and appliances it's a soundly built house. New investors showed up again and a major effort was made to fire the real estate agent - again to no avail.

Now the minority wants to burn the house down.

[Eagle Road]

Have you even read the articles you presented? I can present just as many clippings that swing the other way.

As far as Israeli intelligence, you really don't believe they have a stake in "proving" Assad was responsible?







By TUCKER REALS / CBS NEWS/ August 29, 2013, 1:03 PM
Syria chemical weapons attack blamed on Assad, but where's the evidence?
This image provided by Shaam News Network on Thursday, Aug. 22, 2013, which has been authenticated based on its contents and other AP reporting, purports to show dead bodies after an attack on Ghouta, Syria on Wednesday, Aug. 21, 2013.
This image provided by Shaam News Network on Thursday, Aug. 22, 2013, which has been authenticated based on its contents and other AP reporting, purports to show dead bodies after an attack on Ghouta, Syria on Wednesday, Aug. 21, 2013. / AP/SHAAM NEWS NETWORK
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LONDON Prime Minister David Cameron told British lawmakers Thursday that there is "no 100 percent certainty about who is responsible" for the apparent mass-chemical weapons attack on suburban Damascus on Aug. 21.

Nevertheless, Cameron asserted that "from all the evidence we have," his government, along with the Obama administration, had made the "judgment" that "the regime is responsible and should be held to account."

Also just like the Obama administration, however, Cameron's government has yet to explain exactly what the evidence of Assad's culpability is, or where it came from.


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The Prime Minister spoke hours after the British Joint Intelligence Organization (JTI) released a report claiming "a limited but growing body of intelligence" showing that Assad's regime was behind the Aug. 21 attacks, which left at least 355 people dead.

"Some of this intelligence is highly sensitive," the chairman of Britain's Joint Intelligence Committee wrote to Cameron in the open report, "but you have had access to it all."

While Cameron has had access to the intelligence, the rest of the world has not. He did offer one further claim in Parliament on Thursday, however, saying there was "intelligence that regime forces took precautions consistent with chemical weapons use" in the immediate prelude to the Ghouta attacks. He did not explain where that information had come from.

About 4,000 miles to the west, in Washington, the Obama administration was putting the finishing touches on two reports -- the first a classified assessment to be presented to members of Congress; the second, a declassified version for the American public -- meant to lay out the White House's own evidence that Assad's government used chemical weapons.

The White House has claimed to have obtained intercepted phone calls that provide further evidence against the Assad regime, and administration officials also told CBS News that intelligence agencies detected activity at known Syrian chemical weapons sites the week before the Ghouta attack.

Similar activity had been detected before, and the assumption was made that the Syrians were moving things around for security reasons. But last week, the officials told CBS News the most recent activity was being viewed as possible preparation for Wednesday's attack.

With the possible exception of the intercepted phone calls, and the claim by Cameron on Thursday that regime soldiers had taken precautions typical of chemical weapons use, the vast majority of the evidence of Assad regime culpability presented by both Cameron, the Obama administration and their allies in France, Turkey and other nations, is circumstantial in nature.


15 PHOTOS
Life in a Syrian refugee camp
It hinges largely on the argument, as Cameron put it Thursday, that there are simply "no plausible alternate scenarios."

Below is a look at some of the often-reiterated circumstantial evidence presented by the U.S. and U.K. governments, along with questions which remain unanswered pertaining to that evidence and which skeptics of the legal basis for a military intervention in both countries' legislatures will likely be seeking answers to in the coming days.

"No plausible alternate scenarios"

"There is no credible evidence that any opposition group has used CW (chemical weapons). A number continue to seek a CW capability, but none currently has the capability to conduct a CW attack on this scale."

That quote comes from the British JTI report published Thursday, but it echoes the most often-used argument to pin blame for the Ghouta attacks on Assad's government.

Chemical and biological weapons experts have been relatively consistent in their analysis, saying only a military force with access to and knowledge of missile delivery systems and the sarin gas suspected in Ghouta could have carried out an attack capable of killing hundreds of people.


PHOTOS
But no official death toll has been given. The international aid group Doctors Without Borders said it tallied 355 people killed and more than 3,000 displaying symptoms typical of a nerve agent like sarin gas, but no independent organization has yet confirmed that it was sarin gas used in Ghouta. Nor has it been confirmed what the delivery method was.

The international community will hope for clarity on these questions from the U.N. inspectors who have been on the ground in Ghouta this week.

There are other chemical agents which have allegedly been used in Syria since 2012, including far-less-potent organophosphates, which are readily available in the form of industrial insecticides.

It should also be noted that Russia claimed to have provided evidence in July to the U.N. which showed the rebels were behind a sarin gas attack in the village of Khan al-Assal in March 2012.

"It was established that on March 19, the rebels launched an unguided Bashar 3 projectile towards Khan al-Assal controlled by the government forces," Vitaly Churkin, Russian ambassador to the United Nations, told reporters, adding that he intended to share the evidence with the U.S., U.K and France.

The ambassador said the results of the analysis of the gas-laden projectile indicated the Bashar 3 rocket "was not industrially manufactured and was filled with sarin." He said the samples indicated the sarin and the projectile were produced in "cottage industry" conditions.

The absence of chemical stabilizers, which are needed for long-term storage and later use, indicated its "possibly recent production," Churkin said.

The Russian's purported evidence of rebel culpability for the Khan al-Assal attack was never revealed, but neither was the West's purported evidence that the Assad regime did it.

[Eagle Road]

Your article,



But one question remaining is whether the attack was ordered by al-Assad himself. On that question, the senior U.S. official said, the administration has a "very clear answer" - but declined to say what that answer is - citing the classified nature of the intelligence.

The first U.S. official told CNN the intelligence assessment shows the attack was ordered at the "highest levels" of the regime. That official declined to specifically say whether al-Assad ordered the attack but did not rule it out.
"We are not saying Assad himself had his finger on the button. But he is responsible for the stockpile and any attack like this would have to have been approved at the highest levels," he said. He rejected the notion the evidence of regime involvement was circumstantial.

"We have a very solid case to indicate the regime was behind this."

That official said the evidence shows it was not a "rogue element" of the Syrian regime that carried out the attack, or the Syrian rebels. Another U.S. official echoed the idea that the intelligence assessment shows it was not a rogue element of the regime.

None of these officials spoke on the record due to the sensitive nature of the information.
Publicly, U.S. officials say it is irrelevant whether Assad actually ordered the attack or not, arguing that Assad is responsible for the actions of his regime.

"The commander-in-chief of any military is ultimately responsible for decisions made under their leadership, even if command and control - he's not the one that pushes the button or said, 'Go,' on this," State Department deputy spokeswoman Marie Harf said Wednesday.

On Thursday, the British government released a summary of its intelligence assessment that concluded "it is highly likely that the (Syrian) regime was responsible" for the attack. British intelligence "had high confidence in all of its assessments except in relation to the regime's precise motivation for carrying out an attack of this scale at this time - though intelligence may increase our confidence in the future," the document said.

Separately, the U.S. intelligence community currently is focusing heavily on any real time movements by the Syrian leadership, its forces, or elements of the regime in reaction to the possibility of military action by the U.S., the senior official said.

"We do not want to go blind and deaf," about the location of key elements of the regime. "We want to see what 'looks different,' what 'might be different' and how we stay ahead of the game," the official said.

This becomes crucial to ensuring that all targeting remains up to date and the U.S. has the latest information about the location of chemical weapons sites. The U.S. intelligence community is also trying to assess in detail any possible reactions by al-Assad in advance of a possible U.S. strike, and afterward if one is ordered, including the possibility he will launch more attacks.

"We are not ruling anything out," the official said. There have been reports of some weapons including aircraft being dispersed to avoid a possible U.S. missile strike. The U.S. also believes Assad will continue to move other assets around, but will remain in control of the chemical stockpile, the official said.

The United States also is closely watching Lebanese Hezbollah as well as the Iranians for any signs they could launch proxy attacks against Syria's neighbors, including Israel and Iraq, in retaliation for a potential U.S. strike.

[FuriousXGeorge]

ER: WAHHH WAHH I WANT PROOF!

Me: Okay, here you go.

ER: NU-UHH! NU-UHH!

Ok babby, here you go. Calm down.



Now, dry your tears and sit in the corner for a bit while I remind you what our conversation is about.

Yep, just like Obama wanting to bomb the shit out of Syria with NO PROOF, it's been how long? STILL NO PROOF.

Now let's remember where we are now, with every legitimate source:

"We have a very solid case to indicate the regime was behind this."

That is because there is lots of proof, which has been linked for you.

[Eagle Road]

ER: WAHHH WAHH I WANT PROOF!

Me: Okay, here you go.

ER: NU-UHH! NU-UHH!

Ok babby, here you go. Calm down.

Your other article, I hope your not a Judge and I ever wind up in your court.

"We have evidence that the terrorist group has used sarin gas," Assad said, adding that the evidence had been turned over to Russia.

"Second, the Russian satellite, since the beginning of these allegations at the 21st of August — they said that they have information, through their satellite, that the rocket (was) launched from another area. So why ... ignore this point of view?"

The interview was conducted Tuesday in the Syrian capital of Damascus by former Ohio Democratic Rep. Dennis Kucinich, a Fox News contributor, and Fox News Channel Senior Correspondent Greg Palkot.

The attack precipitated the crisis over Syria's chemical weapons. The U.S. threatened a military strike against Syria, which led to a plan negotiated by Moscow and Washington under which the Assad regime is to abandon its chemical weapons stockpile.

A U.N. report released Monday confirmed that chemical weapons were used in the attack but did not ascribe blame.

The United States, Britain and France cited evidence in the report to declare Assad's government responsible. Russia called the report "one-sided" and says it has "serious reason to suggest that this was a provocation" by the rebels fighting the Assad regime in Syria's civil war.

Assad agreed, saying the scenario of the attack depicted in the report was unrealistic.

"So, the whole story doesn't even hold together," Assad said. "It's not realistic. So, no, we didn't. In one word, we didn't use any chemical weapons in Ghouta, because if you want to use it, you would harm your troops, you would have harmed the tens of thousands of civilians in Syria, in Damascus."

[Eagle Road]

Also, nice deflection to get away from the ACA debate.

[FuriousXGeorge]

Your other article, I hope your not a Judge and I ever wind up in your court.

The brutal military dictator that is massacring his civilians denies this particular massacre all the evidence shows his military launched? Well, clearly that means there is reasonable doubt according to Judge Toddlertant!

[FuriousXGeorge]

Also, nice deflection to get away from the ACA debate.

You are the one who decided to bring up the military, I can't help where you want to take your tantrum, I can only explain to you why it would be best if you calmed down and tried to be an adult since you aren't making any sense. If you want to return to discussing the Heritage Foundation/Mitt Romney healthcare plan though, go right ahead. You are responsible for your own words and actions, not the big meany pants who are trying to help you learn about the bill.

[TerpEagle]

You have me figured so wrong, I am a libertarian, you know, don't fuck with me and I won't fuck with you, so you can stop with the references, they make you look foolish.

Let's test your libertarian roots.

Did you vote for George W Bush, his father or Ronald Reagan (Captain Conservative)? If you did, you helped elect men who each supported deficit spending and increased the federal and debt (and in many cases the budget deficit) while initiating significant military action overseas.

Do you bid on and accept government contracts? If so, why do you choose to benefit from taxpayer money rather than seeking out private clients?

Do you support the existence of national parks and monuments, the military, the FDA, the SSA, and other government agencies?

Do you support the legalization of gay marriage?

Do you support the legalization of marijuana?

If you say yes to any of these items - when did you make that decision? Was it prior to Obama's election? Was it prior to Bush's re-election after starting two wars and reducing revenue to accelerate deficit spending?

[TerpEagle]

You've now thrown your support behind the words and actions of Assad and Putin to make a point that Obama is just like George W. Bush.

Your argument is an equality between these two things:

Obama threatened military action based on (what you consider dubious) proof regarding chemical weapons use but chose diplomacy when given the chance.

Bush initiated war in Iraq based on no proof regarding WMD's while he already had the military engaged in a separate foreign conflict.

What the fuck are you talking about?

[Eagle Road]

Let's test your libertarian roots.

Did you vote for George W Bush, his father or Ronald Reagan (Captain Conservative)? If you did, you helped elect men who each supported deficit spending and increased the federal and debt (and in many cases the budget deficit) while initiating significant military action overseas.

Did NOT vote for any of those candidates

Do you bid on and accept government contracts? If so, why do you choose to benefit from taxpayer money rather than seeking out private clients?

True, we work for both Private and Government entities, however over the last couple of years our Government percentages have fallen to below 5% of our total gross income, they are such a PITA to deal with it just isn't worth it.

Do you support the existence of national parks and monuments, the military, the FDA, the SSA, and other government agencies?

That is a "loaded" question, and you know it.

Do you support the legalization of gay marriage?

Fine by me, I could give a shit what two people do in their privacy, it's none of my damn business.

Do you support the legalization of marijuana?

Yes, but probably not for the reasons that you would think.

If you say yes to any of these items - when did you make that decision? Was it prior to Obama's election? Was it prior to Bush's re-election after starting two wars and reducing revenue to accelerate deficit spending?

It's been well over twenty years,right about the time the Federal and State Government fucked me out of my first business. After that I don't believe anything that comes out of Washington without verification.

[Eagle Road]

You've now thrown your support behind the words and actions of Assad and Putin to make a point that Obama is just like George W. Bush.

Your argument is an equality between these two things:

Obama threatened military action based on (what you consider dubious) proof regarding chemical weapons use but chose diplomacy when given the chance.

Bush initiated war in Iraq based on no proof regarding WMD's while he already had the military engaged in a separate foreign conflict.

What the fuck are you talking about?

Obama knew damn well that he would NOT get Congressional approval and would look like just like W. if no smoking gun was found.

[FuriousXGeorge]

Obama knew damn well that he would NOT get Congressional approval and would look like just like W. if no smoking gun was found.

He was not planning to go in and look, and you don't need to find a smoking gun anymore when you already have the Syrian Military discussing their participation in the attack on tape.

And I thought you wanted to talk about healthcare? Just can't control yourself, eh?

[TerpEagle]

It's been well over twenty years,right about the time the Federal and State Government fucked me out of my first business. After that I don't believe anything that comes out of Washington without verification.

Then you're more libertarian than most so-called claimers.

I know plenty of people who became libertarian very recently and don't know what it means or simply say that their form of social/neo conservatism is libertarian because Obama is in the White House and Democrats control the Senate.

I appreciate your faithfulness to your ideology even though I think it's an untenable position in many ways in this world.

I understand having reservations about the government and do myself but you are trying to equate very different things in your arguments.

Passing a bill into law by a majority (which is then ruled constitutional) is not the same as shutting down the government as a minority group.

Threatening force against a leader who, even before the chemical weapons attacks, was waging a bloody civil war and then going the diplomatic route once he acquiesced is not the same as actually starting a war on false pretenses.

[FuriousXGeorge]

Butch Matthews is a 61-year-old former small business owner from Little Rock, Arkansas who used to wake up every morning at 4 A.M. to deliver canned beverages to retailers before retiring in 2010. A lifelong Republican, he was heavily skeptical of the Affordable Care Act when it first passed. “I did not think that Obamacare was going to be a good plan, I did not think that it was going to help me at all,” he told ThinkProgress over the phone.

But after doing a little research, Matthews eventually realized how much the law could help him. And on Tuesday, his local Blue Cross Blue Shield (BCBS) provider confirmed that he would be able to buy a far better plan than his current policy while saving at least $13,000 per year through Arkansas’ Obamacare marketplace.

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013...acare-convert/