"Rectal Rehydration"

[Maniac]

I think as long as we're willing to announce that America will use any interrogation method we find appropriate, there is no reason to release the details. We would also need to get out of any international treaties that forbid torture.

[TerpEagle]

So according to terp, capturing suspected terrorists and "torturing" them for Intel is a moral outrage. But blowing them up (and everyone around them) via remote-controlled toy planes as we do now, eh that's fine.

Oh, you thought that post I made regarding drone strikes wasn't sarcasm?

You can chalk me down for being anti-killing of civilians. I know it has nothing to do with why certain people might want to kill Americans, but still it's kinda icky.

[TerpEagle]

I think as long as we're willing to announce that America will use any form of torture we find appropriate, there is no reason to release the details. We would also need to get out of any international treaties that condemn torture.

Those treaties are holding us back. We're America. We represent 4.43% of the world population. We can do whatever we want and if you don't like it, fuck you.

Just don't get mad and dislike us, that's irrational because we're the light in the darkness, the city on the hill.

[Maniac]

We're America. We represent 4.43% of the world population. We can do whatever we want and if you don't like it, fuck you.

That's kind of harsh. We could say we would only anally feed people if we had a really good reason.

[SCREAMIN EAGLE]

If America is supposed to the beacon of light, how does hiding behind and justifying atrocities impress that image upon the rest of the world?

The premise of this country is accountability and adherence to law and human rights. When those standards aren't met, violators should be held accountable for all to see.

If it's not, then why would anyone, American or otherwise, have faith in the USA? Then we become Russia. Or Iran. Or Qatar. Or any other nation that has different laws for different people and covers up wrong doing to avoid bad PR.

And I'm not saying that the US doesn't already have that occurring. It's the same issue being unveiled regarding police excess of power right now. Bad behavior is excused because some end is justified.

But covering things up rather than holding people/groups accountable is far more damaging in my opinion. That type of behavior gives others a justified reason to dislike us.

I agree totally. They should also publish nuclear warhead launch codes as well. I mean, the American people deserve to know everything.

[TerpEagle]

I agree totally. They should also publish nuclear warhead launch codes as well. I mean, the American people deserve to know everything.

That's a strawman unless you're 100% libertarian in which case, the government should not have nuclear weapons but rather private citizens should be allowed to have them and not be forced to share their codes.

If (when) the US launches(d) nuclear weapons against another country there should absolutely be an investigation into whether that action was in fact justifiable to prevent further death (assuming anyone is left).

But launch codes, troop locations, equipment specifications, etc. don't represent human rights violations. They're not actions.

Torture is an act that violates basic human rights. And its effectiveness to preserve the safety of Americans is dubious at best. Like any other questionable act by the government, it should be investigated and those who performed/sanctioned it should be held accountable.

[Riccardo]

Well I didn't see any outrage from you on the current strategy

Oh, you thought that post I made regarding drone strikes wasn't sarcasm?

You can chalk me down for being anti-killing of civilians. I know it has nothing to do with why certain people might want to kill Americans, but still it's kinda icky.

And it's certainly the position of the Obama administration and the senate democrats that released their version of previous tactics.

[Riccardo]

That's the point, both sides are biased

So by stating, as you did, that the enhanced interrogation produced nothing, the fact is you simply don't know, and only wish to believe that true.

[TerpEagle]

And it's certainly the position of the Obama administration and the senate democrats that released their version of previous tactics.

I don't agree with drone strikes or bombing in general of civilians, regardless of political affiliation.

I think it minimizes the costs of war because there is less risk. It's playing a video game and taking out people from a far away place. It's much easier to perform acts of violence when there is little fear of consequences.

It's amusing that you're referring to it as a Democrat position when it's a position that either party would hold as a way to go to war, though.

My position about use of torture to gain information doesn't stem from like or dislike of a political party. In general I hold more disdain for Republicans over this issue because they support the actions more than Democrats. But I dislike Republicans because of these actions, not these actions because of Republicans.

[TerpEagle]

So by stating, as you did, that the enhanced interrogation produced nothing, the fact is you simply don't know, and only wish to believe that true.

That's an easy argument to make. He said, she said so we're both right or wrong.

But seriously, you trust the CIA? An agency with excessive power and built on the foundation of lying, surveillance, espionage, and regime change - more than an independent report?

I'm sure the CIA is telling it straight. Just like the NSA.

[Riccardo]

Use of drones isn't just a democrat position

I was referring to the notion that enhanced interrogation is bad but killing suspects is OK - the position of the senate dems/current admin. Personally I have no problem with either strategy, for reasons outlined by Brookie and others. These people are trying to kill us and our families - not just our soldiers. They deserve to be treated as such.

[TerpEagle]

I was referring to the notion that enhanced interrogation is bad but killing suspects is OK - the position of the senate dems/current admin. Personally I have no problem with either strategy, for reasons outlined by Brookie and others. These people are trying to kill us and our families - not just our soldiers. They deserve to be treated as such.

If we're engaged in a war and fighting enemy combatants, then yes I understand the justification of fighting. And I understand that we're not at war with a defined nation. But I'm not a shill for this administration who just says, yeah well Obama bombed them so it's cool and I have issue with drone strikes of civilians.

Regardless, as in any war, treatment of prisoners differs from treatment of enemy combatants. Or at least it's supposed to.

However, I think the "War on Terror" is a pretty big blanket that attempts to justify attacking or treating almost anyone we want who isn't a citizen as enemy combatants and I do have issue with that.

[Riccardo]

That's fair

However, I think the "War on Terror" is a pretty big blanket that attempts to justify attacking or treating almost anyone we want who isn't a citizen as enemy combatants and I do have issue with that.

I don't see this slippery slope, tho. I haven't heard of us using drones to take out suspected terrorists other than al quaeda and their ilk. And remember we have targeted and taken out at least one US citizen who fell in the same boat (and I had no problem with that either)

[TerpEagle]

I don't see this slippery slope, tho. I haven't heard of us using drones to take out suspected terrorists other than al quaeda and their ilk. And remember we have targeted and taken out at least one US citizen who fell in the same boat (and I had no problem with that either)

http://costsofwar.org/

That's what the "War on Terror" has cost.

[Riccardo]

So what does that have to do with enhanced interrogation?

http://costsofwar.org/

That's what the "War on Terror" has cost.

And what would have been the cost of no "war on terror"? How many more American civilians would have died? How many 100000s of Iraqis would have been killed by Hussein? Those "cost" analyses are meaningless in a vacuum