One thing about Murray...

[TerpEagle]

And BTW - the conditions are also of some note, considering each players' home fields.

And more to the point ... I don't need stats to know the styles of those two guys and what they're better at.

I think the point of AE showing stats is to see if they compare to the eye test.

Anyway, I was just busting your balls because someone threw up stats and you responded as expected.

One stat that I didn't expect is that Murray actually has runs of 20+ yards more frequently than McCoy. For their (reg. season) careers, McCoy broke a 20+ yard run once every 31 carries. Murray, once every 27.

McCoy over the last two years broke a 20+ run about once every 35 carries. Murray about once every 26 in 2014 and every 27 in 2013.

So while I think most of us see McCoy as a the home-run back, Murray gets those "big" runs more frequently.

[slag]

I thought the stats could be massaged to argue that McCoy is not as bad on short yardage as one would think.

[AnnapolisEagle]

I don't need stats to know that Murray is a banger and McCoy is better at making people miss in space.

So what's the beef? Looking at the stats the support your impression of the two players wasted your time?

I love Shady and am not grave-dancing. And with all the offensive personnel changes (especially if Chip trades Mathis), we may desperately miss his elusiveness. He didn't just make people miss in space, he made people miss when he had no business getting another inch.

Interestingly, I just saw a tweet from Sheil Kapadia that said Murray was stuffed for zero or negative yards on 9.4% of his runs, better than McCoy (13.1%) but still only 21st among running backs.

[slag]

I don't have a beef except with the notion that using stats for generalizations is dangerous.

I actually initially was a little confused because I didn't see McCoy's stats that far from Murray's for backing up the point.

[AnnapolisEagle]

I don't have a beef except with the notion that using stats for generalizations is dangerous.

I actually initially was a little confused because I didn't see McCoy's stats that far from Murray's for backing up the point.

I'd prefer to have some stats that back up the idea, though. And these do.

I don't think the stats say Murray is vastly superior. I think they illustrate that they've come about their success differently.

A lot of talking heads have floated the idea that Murray fits a little better than McCoy and there seems to be reason to believe that.

I agree that stats can definitely be misleading. Want to hear something crazy? The offense under Sanchez last year was better on third down (like 41% conversation rate) than it was in 2013 with Foles (like 39%).

In a vacuum, that stat is misleading. What it doesn't tell you is that 2013 Foles had a lot fewer third downs because they got up and down the field like crazy.

[Eagle Road]

I'd prefer to have some stats that back up the idea, though. And these do.

I don't think the stats say Murray is vastly superior. I think they illustrate that they've come about their success differently.

A lot of talking heads have floated the idea that Murray fits a little better than McCoy and there seems to be reason to believe that.

I agree that stats can definitely be misleading. Want to hear something crazy? The offense under Sanchez last year was better on third down (like 41% conversation rate) than it was in 2013 with Foles (like 39%).

In a vacuum, that stat is misleading. What it doesn't tell you is that 2013 Foles had a lot fewer third downs because they got up and down the field like crazy.

Yep, no compare long yardage TD completions from 13 to 14.

[Mt Iggle]

I appreciate those stats and your observations.
I like stats as I'm an Accountant.
Slag is a Lawyer, so he looks at it differently.

[GreatYear]

What about Murrays fumbles all year?

Yeah lets not talk about that stat.

I cannot believe we got this bloke and let Shady go which will take me a long time to get over.

Murrays fumbles cost Dallas a shot at the NFC championship game when Peppers got him and Murray always runs with the ball unprotected away from his body and it was amusing when he was a Cowboy but now he is one of us. The backlash will come when he fumbles games away for us next season on his 40 Million salary.

[AnnapolisEagle]

What about Murrays fumbles all year?

Yeah lets not talk about that stat.

I cannot believe we got this bloke and let Shady go which will take me a long time to get over.

Murrays fumbles cost Dallas a shot at the NFC championship game when Peppers got him and Murray always runs with the ball unprotected away from his body and it was amusing when he was a Cowboy but now he is one of us. The backlash will come when he fumbles games away for us next season on his 40 Million salary.

His fumble rate last year was slightly higher than McCoy's -- he fumbled on 1.3% of his touches while McCoy was at 1.1%. McCoy's career rate is much better, though: 1 more fumble in about 650 more touches.

[GreatYear]

His fumble rate last year was slightly higher than McCoy's -- he fumbled on 1.3% of his touches while McCoy was at 1.1%. McCoy's career rate is much better, though: 1 more fumble in about 650 more touches.

It was more when he fumbles. In week 1 he lost them the game against the Niners and also booted them out of the playoffs at Lambeau.

He seems to save his best fumbles when the game is on the line and if RB's fumble away the ball when you are 15-20pts up late in the game etc it is no big deal. and this is where the Stats are misleading. But gee whiz Murrays fumbles last season were all at crucial times.

I will vomit if he constantly stuffs us up with his fumbles next season.

[Raptor]

One thing that will mitigate his fumbling...

It was more when he fumbles. In week 1 he lost them the game against the Niners and also booted them out of the playoffs at Lambeau.

He seems to save his best fumbles when the game is on the line and if RB's fumble away the ball when you are 15-20pts up late in the game etc it is no big deal. and this is where the Stats are misleading. But gee whiz Murrays fumbles last season were all at crucial times.

I will vomit if he constantly stuffs us up with his fumbles next season.

..in Dallas he was the primary carrier, with Philly he will see less carries as he shares the burden.

[Greenstealth]

How did he lose them the game against the niners? He fumbled on the first carry of the game.

[Raptor]

Another thing to remember ....

Last year he had nine touchdowns of 3 yards or fewer. McCoy had three.

McCoy has more for his career, but he's got a lot more total touchdowns, too. For their careers, 58 percent of Murray's scores are 3 yards or less, compared with 44 percent for McCoy.

I beefed with Kelly's goal line play-calling last year, thinking he should have been more willing to get Shady on the edge and let him do work. But I wonder if the red zone issues last year have at least a little to do with this.

Another interesting thing: Murray's numbers seem to bear out the idea his running style could fit better than Shady. The theory is that Murray will help the offense stay "on schedule" by picking up yardage more consistently because he's less prone to dancing and multiple cuts like McCoy.

Last year, Murray gained 2 yards or fewer on 40.8 percent of his carries (8 TDs), while McCoy did it 45 percent of the time (3 TDs). Shady's 2013 was slightly better than Murray's 2014, though (McCoy gained 2 yards or fewer on 40.4 percent of his carries in 2013, with 5 TDs).

For their careers, Murray has run for 2 yards or less on 39.7 percent of his carries. McCoy is at 43.3 percent.

Schemes, offensive lines, etc. all change of course, so it's not really apples to apples. But still, pretty interesting.

-AE

...is how these backs will be used. I don't believe it's Chips intentions to replace McCoy's production with just a single back.

Have to look at Mathews production as well..like you mentioned it's hard to compare straight up....this season will be make that more so as the RB committee takes over.

[nerd]

...is how these backs will be used. I don't believe it's Chips intentions to replace McCoy's production with just a single back.

Have to look at Mathews production as well..like you mentioned it's hard to compare straight up....this season will be make that more so as the RB committee takes over.

why would you pay murray that much to have running back by committee? seems odd.