Dumbass Greeks

[Dim Bulb]

Octopus

And awesome octopus.

Is it true that people can retire on full government pension at age 50?

"The Greek lobster."

[Birdwatcher]

I wasn't refering to you in particular ER

Other comments were in mind when I wrote it, but the facts you point out don't exactly support the supposition that Greeks are lazy or don't want to work. BTW, a Greek living on a 1K monthly pension certainly isn't living the high life, SS pays more on average here. The real truth is that the Euro is skewed to favor Germany, read this for a different take on the situation.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102814649

If you are aiming this at my comments, everything I said WAS fact, first off, I never called anyone lazy, or a Socialist, or a Marxist, and that fact you can plainly read in the comments I posted.


So let's take them one by one, Greek Retirement age, avg. age is UNDER 58 years old, and their pension is OVER 80% of their income, in other words a worker making 1100 gets a pension of almost 900 dollars (adjusted figures from Euro to Dollar based) and this article is from The Greek Reporter,


The average retirement age in Greece stands at just 57 years and eight months, quoting a survey conducted by the Hellenic Statistical Authority (ELSTAT). The survey used a sample from the quarterly work force report from the April-June 2012 period for people aged between 50 and 69 years, and reached some very interesting conclusions. The average age of retirement for men is 58 years, while for women it is a few months earlier. Less than one in three (28.3%) of the respondents said that obligatory retirement was the main reason for their exiting the labor market. Almost six out of 10 had secured the right to retire, while a 5.7% share of workers stated that they had exited the market due to health problems. It also appears that the age of retirement is affected by education level, due to its connection to work and the social security system. It was found that those who have only obtained an elementary education (primary school leavers) are more likely to retire later, at the average age of 59 years and three months. In contrast, the more educated a worker is, the earlier they retire, with the average age of retirement for university graduates standing at 56 years and four months. (source: ANSA) - See more at: http://greece.greekreporter.com/2013....hEWQ2Vc2.dpuf





As far as shorter work week and more vacation days, you are correct the Greeks DO work longer hours than most of the EU, the EU countries average 41.6 and the Greeks are at 42.2, which is pretty much a wash, I was comparing what they work to the middle class here which most work much more than 40 hrs per week.




The average working week for full-time employees only in the EU is 41.6 hours. Ireland’s full-time workers have an average week of 39.7 working hours. Germany’s full-time employees do work harder than the EU average, with a 42-hour working week. But Greece’s average full-time working weeks is 43.7 hours – again, the highest average in the 27 EU states.
Average usual hours worked by all in employment, and full-time workers, April to June 2011, in the EU states:
Greece – All in employment: 42.2 Full-time employment only: 43.7
Czech Republic – All in employment: 41.2 Full-time employment only: 42.3
Bulgaria – All in employment: 40.9 Full-time employment only: 41.3
Poland – All in employment: 40.6 Full-time employment only: 42.2
Slovakia – All in employment: 40.5 Full-time employment only: 41.5
Romania – All in employment: 40.5 Full-time employment only: 41.0
Cyprus – All in employment: 40 Full-time employment only: 42.1
Slovenia – All in employment:39.6 Full-time employment only: 41.8
Hungary – All in employment: 39.4 Full-time employment only: 40.6
Latvia – All in employment: 39.2 Full-time employment only: 40.8
Portugal – All in employment: 39.1 Full-time employment only: 42.3
Malta – All in employment: 38.8 Full-time employment only: 41.4
Estonia – All in employment: 38.6 Full-time employment only: 40.8
Spain – All in employment: 38.4 Full-time employment only: 41.6
Lithuania – All in employment: 38.3 Full-time employment only: 39.7
France – All in employment: 38 Full-time employment only: 41.1
Austria – All in employment: 37.8 Full-time employment only: 43.7
Italy – All in employment: 37.6 Full-time employment only: 40.5
Finland – All in employment: 37.4 Full-time employment only: 40.3
Luxembourg – All in employment: 37 Full-time employment only: 40.5
Belgium – All in employment: 36.9 Full-time employment only: 41.7
Sweden – All in employment: 36.5 Full-time employment only: 40.9
UK – All in employment: 36.3 Full-time employment only: 42.7
Germany – All in employment: 35.6 Full-time employment only: 42.0
Ireland – All in employment: 35.0 Full-time employment only: 39.7
Denmark – All in employment: 33.8 Full-time employment only: 39.1
Netherlands – All in employment: 30.5 Full-time employment only: 40.9




As to IE comment on there are many unemployed because there is no Employment Opportunities, this I do agree with, and again, I place that blame on the Gov. for not bringing jobs into that country.


I never said they were LAZY, what I said was there were a large number of the working force either Unemployed, or Employed under the table so no taxes being paid or collected.


This is from one of the most Left sided publication you can find, The Marxist. This backs up EXACTLY what I was saying about Black Market jobs/labor.




Furthermore, according to the annual report of the joint GSEE-ADEDY trade union confederations on the economy and employment levels in 2009, of the current four and a half million labour force, more than a million work without any social security or other forms of legal protection. According to the report of the Commission for Social Security, established by the Greek Ministry of Labour, this figure reaches 30% of the overall workforce, while in the rest of the EU the percentage of workers in these conditions are only between 5 and 10% of the total.
And whose fault is that? Contributions are supposed to be calculated by the bosses, who pay a part themselves and the remainder is paid by the workers out of their wages. But that would mean declaring the workers legally and paying taxes on the profits made. The bosses prefer to hire a sizeable number of workers illegally, in the “black economy”, and thus save on both taxes due to the state and contributions. If the bosses had paid all taxes due in recent years, and if they had paid what they are supposed to pay into social security funds, the situation would not be anywhere as bad as it is today. It is the Greek capitalists and the foreign investors who have profited from this situation. But who are they blaming? The Greek workers and poor, of course!
On top of all this, in Greece there is also the phenomenon of around 300,000 “false self-employed workers”. These are workers who have in reality been forced to set themselves up as self-employed. In reality they work for a boss who can freely assign the manner, the time, the place of work, and the working conditions and thus this form of working is essentially employment by a boss, but with the added advantage that he can sack them whenever he wants, as formally he is the workers’ “client”. Bosses prefer this method of employment because these workers are not treated legally as employees; they don’t have the same legal rights as the rest of the working class, such as monthly salaries, paid holidays, etc. Employers can fire them freely, even without any compensation. We must also add to the list the 200,000 “part-time” employees, most of whom work full-time but are being paid half-time.
In the smear campaign, there have been many reports concerning the supposedly “excessive” number of civil servants in Greece. According to reports of the ILO (International Labour Organization), civil servants in Greece represent 22.3% of the total workforce, while in France the percentage is 30%, in Sweden 34%, in the Netherlands 27%, in the UK 20% and finally, in Germany 14%. So we can see that Greece is actually below the average. The most important fact, however, that has to be borne in mind is that 300,000 of the public sector employees are working under temporary contracts, which means they have far lower wages and much fewer rights.






Also BW, I will total agree with you on this comment you made, it's EXACTLY how I feel about this country!


You can say they elected their government, but whoever they chose was as corrupt as the other choice. It sucks when your vote only determines the method with which you will be screwed.

[Eagle Road]

Other comments were in mind when I wrote it, but the facts you point out don't exactly support the supposition that Greeks are lazy or don't want to work. BTW, a Greek living on a 1K monthly pension certainly isn't living the high life, SS pays more on average here. The real truth is that the Euro is skewed to favor Germany, read this for a different take on the situation.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102814649

Good article, read something similar a couple of days ago, the bottom line is the country with the bigger economy and leverage is always going to be the bull in the China closet.


I would bet if you were to ask a LOT of nations around the globe that are "forced" for lack of a better word, to use the Petro Dollar as their trading currency they would feel just as Greece does.


Let's face it, the U.S. uses the Dollar as the worlds currency (along with the fact that they and they alone can just print more when they see fit) as a huge advantage in dealing with other countries.


Germany uses it's GDP power the same way, I don't see a whole lot of difference between the two.


But I can also see the pickle that it puts Merkel in, IF they were to absolve some of the debt, it would fall back unto the German citizens/workers, how do you think that would go over?

This is why in the other "Greece" thread I said I was more interested in how the Puerto Rican situation was to be handled. Meaning, are American tax payers going to wind up footing this bailout.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Susquehanna Birder
I'm sure they are already empty, since the banks won't let the people in. I'm kind of surprised they even let the ATMs function at this point.

And "ATM" kinda works with the direction I was taking the thread earlier.


Yeah, they are "functioning" if that's what you call a 66.00 limit. I'm kinda curious to see what happens with Puerto Rico.

[Birdwatcher]

I'm just saying...

Calling Greeks Marxists or Socialists in general is as bad as saying all Muslims are terrorists. And again ER, not saying you said it, but that kind of knee-jerk reaction is used all too often to sweep the real problems under the rug. Doesn't really matter how we got here, the real question is: Is posturing and stupidity going to make things worse? Germany has much more to lose than Greece, and as I suggested, forget your own history at your peril.

Good article, read something similar a couple of days ago, the bottom line is the country with the bigger economy and leverage is always going to be the bull in the China closet.


I would bet if you were to ask a LOT of nations around the globe that are "forced" for lack of a better word, to use the Petro Dollar as their trading currency they would feel just as Greece does.


Let's face it, the U.S. uses the Dollar as the worlds currency (along with the fact that they and they alone can just print more when they see fit) as a huge advantage in dealing with other countries.


Germany uses it's GDP power the same way, I don't see a whole lot of difference between the two.


But I can also see the pickle that it puts Merkel in, IF they were to absolve some of the debt, it would fall back unto the German citizens/workers, how do you think that would go over?

This is why in the other "Greece" thread I said I was more interested in how the Puerto Rican situation was to be handled. Meaning, are American tax payers going to wind up footing this bailout.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Susquehanna Birder
I'm sure they are already empty, since the banks won't let the people in. I'm kind of surprised they even let the ATMs function at this point.

And "ATM" kinda works with the direction I was taking the thread earlier.


Yeah, they are "functioning" if that's what you call a 66.00 limit. I'm kinda curious to see what happens with Puerto Rico.

[Eagle Road]

Calling Greeks Marxists or Socialists in general is as bad as saying all Muslims are terrorists. And again ER, not saying you said it, but that kind of knee-jerk reaction is used all too often to sweep the real problems under the rug. Doesn't really matter how we got here, the real question is: Is posturing and stupidity going to make things worse? Germany has much more to lose than Greece, and as I suggested, forget your own history at your peril.

Agreed, and I should not have made the jump that you were referring to my post, just read it that way.

[Eagle Road]

I'm not a subscriber but let me guess, let's put all the blame for our troubles on someone else, even thou we DID prosper, (highest GDP was under the Euro) and our leadership fumbled the ball and we all voted for higher pensions, more vacation days, shorter work weeks and earlier retirement, even thou there was no way in hell we could afford it?


Not saying that they don't have some legitimate bitches, but they also had legitimate choices.


It would not surprise me one bit if they tried to cut a deal for a reduced loan amount and then turned to BRICS to float them a loan to pay it off.


Believe me, if oil hadn't fallen and Russia wasn't propping up their own economy and spending whatever extra they have upgrading their military they would step in just to have full access to Greece's ports, it would play right into their Naval expansion plans.

According to this article I was pretty spot on with what I wrote above.




http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/marke...Q?ocid=DELLDHP