As an outsider looking in....

[Drama Queen]

If Riccardo went even more bonkers and used his arsenal to commit the same kind of act today, and before doing so, he called into 911 and claimed an allegiance to ISIS, then is he too an Islamic terrorist? (or must his name be Riccardojahad as well? I'm just think out loud here.)

[McCarthy12]

Wow what? Please elaborate.

[Eagle Road]

Wow what? Please elaborate.

Agreed, I thought Mac's point was well made???

[McCarthy12]

If some perverted form of Islam encouraged him to commit the crime, then, yes. This is exactly what ISIS wants. They don't hold recruitment meetings the second Monday of every month over at the Elks Club. They put stuff out there and hope that it influences crazy people. It's working.

[TerpEagle]

Wow what? Please elaborate.

All of those religions have significant radicals that aim to either kill or subjugate others.

Go to Burma. Go to Pakistan and India.

Go hang out in front of an abortion clinic with a pro-choice sign in Kansas.

What is the solution to this one religion that fits the "significant" percentage bill?

Do you blame Christianity when an abortion clinic gets shot or bombed?

[Eagle Road]

All of those religions have significant radicals that aim to either kill or subjugate others.

Go to Burma. Go to Pakistan and India.

Go hang out in front of an abortion clinic with a pro-choice sign in Kansas.

What is the solution to this one religion that fits the "significant" percentage bill?

Do you blame Christianity when an abortion clinic gets shot or bombed?

As I said, ban religion, then you are just left with hate and crazy.

[1960]

All of those religions have significant radicals that aim to either kill or subjugate others.

Go to Burma. Go to Pakistan and India.

Go hang out in front of an abortion clinic with a pro-choice sign in Kansas.

What is the solution to this one religion that fits the "significant" percentage bill?

Do you blame Christianity when an abortion clinic gets shot or bombed?

Just out of curiosity how many abortion clinics have been bombed in the last year. I think your sense of proportion might be off.

[TerpEagle]

Agreed, I thought Mac's point was well made???

If Islam is the cause/impetus when someone claiming they follow ISIS does an evil deed - what is the cause/impetus when a Christian claiming they are doing God's good work does an evil deed?

I think religion in general is stupid and irrational. It justifies terrible acts (be it murder or simply bigotry) based on supernatural belief and it allows many people to avoid real world problems because of a feeling of being special.

But ISIS is more than religion. It's political. Religion is being manipulated to evil ends. Just like Christianity has been manipulated to evil ends. Just like Buddhism has been manipulated to evil ends. Just like Hinduism has been manipulated to evil ends.

Religion will always be manipulated to evil ends because it's basis is a higher power giving permission to act a certain way.

That's not going to change unless we get rid of religion - and then it'll just be something else to justify humans acting like assholes.

As a society, though, things get worse when an entire religion is demonized as evil or as the only one that is corrupted. Because that automatically turns it into "us against them" and that doesn't work out very well.

Demonizing a religion isn't going to solve the problem. Limiting the means of violence, reducing tribalism, reducing the idea of the "other" - these are methods to limit violence.

ISIS uses the idea that Islam and Muslims is severely different from others. Take that tool away.

[Birdwatcher]

So...

Wow what? Please elaborate.

The right wing nut jobs that kill abortion providers aren't a religious sect that use violence to support their cause? There are plenty of people not affiliated with Islam who want to use violence to make their point, and as I pointed out already, violence only creates more violence. The only way to stamp out hatred is to let it go, but that goes against our primal nature. Too many people let their emotions cloud the logic and the cycle goes on and on...

[TerpEagle]

Just out of curiosity how many abortion clinics have been bombed in the last year. I think your sense of proportion might be off.

http://prochoice.org/education-and-a...s-and-history/

1 murder and attempted murder by a firearm.

4 arsons.

[RSE]

There are many Special Snowflakes on this board.

[1960]

http://prochoice.org/education-and-a...s-and-history/

1 murder and attempted murder by a firearm.

4 arsons.

Proportion. Have not added Orlando. Amazing how many bombs and not guns are used.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...80%93June_2016

[McCarthy12]

I was afraid that is where you were going. It is so intellectually dishonest to equate the crazy guy who claims Jesus told him to blow up an abortion clinic and is universally derided by Christians for his actions to the sophisticated, organized armies of Islamic militant terrorists and the million plus Muslims who support or sympathize with their ideology and aims. There are Muslim theocracies in which you can be killed for being gay! I'm not going to go back and forth with you on this all afternoon. I think your comparison is, at best, a Mr. Fantastic-like stretch. You can have the last word, though.

[Loki]

The people that knew him say that's bullshit.

But why believe them?

[Birdwatcher]

The Muslim religion is one of the youngest in the world...

I was afraid that is where you were going. It is so intellectually dishonest to equate the crazy guy who claims Jesus told him to blow up an abortion clinic and is universally derided by Christians for his actions to the sophisticated, organized armies of Islamic militant terrorists and the million plus Muslims who support or sympathize with their ideology and aims. There are Muslim theocracies in which you can be killed for being gay! I'm not going to go back and forth with you on this all afternoon. I think your comparison is, at best, a Mr. Fantastic-like stretch. You can have the last word, though.

The early days of Christianity brought us the Crusades and Inquisition, but it has matured, somewhat anyway. The amount of fanatical a-holes is smaller now, but they are still there, hating and excluding. Look at the history of the middle east and it is obvious why it is so easy to manipulate disenfranchised youth to radical ideals twisted out of tenets that were originally intended unify people in a shared belief. If we respond with more violence it just perpetuates the cycle.