Time to bury Hugh Douglas now....

[Eagle In Ohio]

I'll say this again, because you may have missed it

So let me ask you a question, do you feel it is OK, for blacks to use the term?

The reason that Black people use the word amongst themselves, and still get upset when a White person uses it, is because of the history of the word. There has never been a time in history when a White person has used that word in regards to a Black person, and meant it any way other than to demean, belittle, or to somehow make a Black person feel less than human. Never. Black people took the word and used it as a term of endearment. For Black people, that word is linked to a centuries long, systematic oppression of our entire race, and Blacks get upset with a White person saying it, because Whites were the perpetrators of that oppression. As for me, I have personally used the word, although I now make a conscious effort not to, and I actually wish that Black people would stop using it, but I don't really condemn them for doing so because I understand the "why" behind their use of it. I hope that cleared things up a little for you.

[Eagle Road]

My point is that every race uses slur words against each other in their own race but it has a lesser affect. If used by other races it has a worst result.

The N-word had no affect on Smith when used by Douglas imo. The word House or Uncle Tom adjective in front of N-word did.

Wynn, I do understand what you are saying, but as long as it is happening across the board, I really don't see how you can single out ONE, unless of course you are looking to perpetuate the issue.

As I see it, and I could be totally in left field, I'm sure someone here will let me know. It HAS to start with the individual being assaulted, REGARDLESS of creed, color, nationality, to know that they are above what is being said.

If somebody, anybody, comes up to me and calls me a white trash, cracker, honky, I will consider the source, I will also consider it a ONE-on-ONE confrontation.

I don't care what color,creed,nationality the person hurling the insults are, in my mind it in no way means EVERYONE from that race race feels that same way about me.

Flame away.

[SCREAMIN EAGLE]

The reason that Black people use the word amongst themselves, and still get upset when a White person uses it, is because of the history of the word. There has never been a time in history when a White person has used that word in regards to a Black person, and meant it any way other than to demean, belittle, or to somehow make a Black person feel less than human. Never. Black people took the word and used it as a term of endearment. For Black people, that word is linked to a centuries long, systematic oppression of our entire race, and Blacks get upset with a White person saying it, because Whites were the perpetrators of that oppression. As for me, I have personally used the word, although I now make a conscious effort not to, and I actually wish that Black people would stop using it, but I don't really condemn them for doing so because I understand the "why" behind their use of it. I hope that cleared things up a little for you.

Term of Endearment... Now that is some funny stuff. Some never cease to amaze.

[Eagle Road]

The reason that Black people use the word amongst themselves, and still get upset when a White person uses it, is because of the history of the word. There has never been a time in history when a White person has used that word in regards to a Black person, and meant it any way other than to demean, belittle, or to somehow make a Black person feel less than human. Never. Black people took the word and used it as a term of endearment. For Black people, that word is linked to a centuries long, systematic oppression of our entire race, and Blacks get upset with a White person saying it, because Whites were the perpetrators of that oppression. As for me, I have personally used the word, although I now make a conscious effort not to, and I actually wish that Black people would stop using it, but I don't really condemn them for doing so because I understand the "why" behind their use of it. I hope that cleared things up a little for you.

EIO, I am aware of the history, but I will never be able to look at it from your viewpoint, because I have never walked in your shoes, and I mean that sincerely.

There will always be stupid, drunk, intolerant, ignorant, use any excuse you want, people in the world, that will NEVER change. The change HAS to come from within on a personal one on one basis, it is the ONLY way the civilized world will ever get above this.

[Eagle In Ohio]

You don't get it

Term of Endearment... Now that is some funny stuff. Some never cease to amaze.

I'm shocked.

[TerpEagle]

Term of Endearment... Now that is some funny stuff. Some never cease to amaze.

You've never used or heard of the use of a negative word/insult with a friend as a term of endearment?

Let me explain this pretty simply. Two guys are sitting around watching football. One of them gets up and goes to the kitchen. The other guy yells:

"Hey asshole, get me a beer."

If they're friends, it's most likely a term of endearment and just "guys being guys". If they aren't friends it's offensive and rude. It's how the word is used and who it's used between that changes its meaning and offensiveness.

The same applies for other words and other situations - such as racial slurs.

[Eagle In Ohio]

Hey, I agree

EIO, I am aware of the history, but I will never be able to look at it from your viewpoint, because I have never walked in your shoes, and I mean that sincerely.

There will always be stupid, drunk, intolerant, ignorant, use any excuse you want, people in the world, that will NEVER change. The change HAS to come from within on a personal one on one basis, it is the ONLY way the civilized world will ever get above this.

Riley Cooper did and said something repulsive. Luckily for him, it was caught on camera, and he was forced to look at himself and what kind of person he really was. maybe it was the alcohol, but the way it just came out so easily tells me that he's said it before. I hope this is a wake up call for him, and as a fan, and a Black man, I welcome him back to the team.

[Eagle In Ohio]

2 + 2 = 4

You've never used or heard of the use of a negative word/insult with a friend as a term of endearment?

Let me explain this pretty simply. Two guys are sitting around watching football. One of them gets up and goes to the kitchen. The other guy yells:

"Hey asshole, get me a beer."

If they're friends, it's most likely a term of endearment and just "guys being guys". If they aren't friends it's offensive and rude. It's how the word is used and who it's used between that changes its meaning and offensiveness.

The same applies for other words and other situations - such as racial slurs.

To some of us...

[Eagle Road]

Riley Cooper did and said something repulsive. Luckily for him, it was caught on camera, and he was forced to look at himself and what kind of person he really was. maybe it was the alcohol, but the way it just came out so easily telle me that he's said it before. I hope this is a wake up call for him, and as a fan, and a Black man, I welcome him back to the team.

So let me ask you a question, if this kind of language does go back and forth between certain Black players on a regular basis in the locker room, as you said, "term of endearment" can you understand how with this being said all around it gets carried over?

I think to a degree Blacks using the word as often as they do, to some people, means it's OK, "they don' find it offensive, or they wouldn't use it" I can tell you, that mentality DOES exist.

As I said, you will never be able to account for all of the stupid, insensitive things said, so I am asking you as an intelligent person, from your perspective, what is the solution?


Stan

[Eagle In Ohio]

here's the thing

So let me ask you a question, if this kind of language does go back and forth between certain Black players on a regular basis in the locker room, as you said, "term of endearment" can you understand how with this being said all around it gets carried over?

I think to a degree Blacks using the word as often as they do, to some people, means it's OK, "they don' find it offensive, or they wouldn't use it" I can tell you, that mentality DOES exist.

As I said, you will never be able to account for all of the stupid, insensitive things said, so I am asking you as an intelligent person, from your perspective, what is the solution?


Stan

Even when you have White people who hang around or have grown up with Black people, there's still an unwritten rule that the N-word is off limits to them. For all of the crazy, controversial things he's said on his albums, Eminem has never used that word. A White person would have to have clearance, or a "pass" to use that word among his Black friends, no matter how close they are. My best friend is White. We've been friends since the 8th grade, I'm the godfather to his girls, and he is to mine. he's an auto mechanic, and one day he was telling me how he fixed a car and he said that he had to n****r rig it. I had to stop him and tell him that I wasn't cool with him saying that to me. Not in a violent way or anything like that, but I just had to let him know. Unfortunately for them, White people are still paying the price (at least in this way) for the sins of their ancestors.

[Eagle Road]

Even when you have White people who hang around or have grown up with Black people, there's still an unwritten rule that the N-word is off limits to them. For all of the crazy, controversial things he's said on his albums, Eminem has never used that word. A White person would have to have clearance, or a "pass" to use that word among his Black friends, no matter how close they are. My best friend is White. We've been friends since the 8th grade, I'm the godfather to his girls, and he is to mine. he's an auto mechanic, and one day he was telling me how he fixed a car and he said that he had to n****r rig it. I had to stop him and tell him that I wasn't cool with him saying that to me. Not in a violent way or anything like that, but I just had to let him know. Unfortunately for them, White people are still paying the price (at least in this way) for the sins of their ancestors.

I can agree with that, but again I ask, what is the solution? I may be all wrong here, but as long as the word is perpetuated in and amongst Blacks, it will always be out there, front and center, so that tells me, that some, NEVER want it to go away?

Also, your last sentence I think does sum up the feelings, at least for me,

Unfortunately for them, White people are still paying the price (at least in this way) for the sins of their ancestors.

Why are ALL White people being looked at as responsible for the actions of a VERY select few, for something that happened many years ago? Isn't that in itself the definition of racism?

Stan

[Eagle In Ohio]

To your first question

I can agree with that, but again I ask, what is the solution? I may be all wrong here, but as long as the word is perpetuated in and amongst Blacks, it will always be out there, front and center, so that tells me, that some, NEVER want it to go away?

Also, your last sentence I think does sum up the feelings, at least for me,

Unfortunately for them, White people are still paying the price (at least in this way) for the sins of their ancestors.

Why are ALL White people being looked at as responsible for the actions of a VERY select few, for something that happened many years ago? Isn't that in itself the definition of racism?

Stan

I suppose the ultimate solution would be for no one to ever use that word again, but I'm not sure that will happen. As far as your second question, I don't see that as racism at all. When you really look at it, "paying the price" is really nothing more than not being able to use an offensive word. When I get this question from some of my White friends, the first question I ask is even though they aren't saying it, why is it that they even WANT to say it ? Why does a White person want to be able to walk around and freely use the word "n***er ?

[SCREAMIN EAGLE]

You've never used or heard of the use of a negative word/insult with a friend as a term of endearment?

Let me explain this pretty simply. Two guys are sitting around watching football. One of them gets up and goes to the kitchen. The other guy yells:

"Hey asshole, get me a beer."

If they're friends, it's most likely a term of endearment and just "guys being guys". If they aren't friends it's offensive and rude. It's how the word is used and who it's used between that changes its meaning and offensiveness.

The same applies for other words and other situations - such as racial slurs.

I understand completely what you and Ohio are saying. But, "Hey A-Hole" is a little different don't you think? I'm just hung up on the fact that the word in question is so Heinous that it should'nt be used by anyone, ever. White or Black.

[Eagle Road]

I suppose the ultimate solution would be for no one to ever use that word again, but I'm not sure that will happen. As far as your second question, I don't see that as racism at all. When you really look at it, "paying the price" is really nothing more than not being able to use an offensive word. When I get this question from some of my White friends, the first question I ask is even though they aren't saying it, why is it that they even WANT to say it ? Why does a White person want to be able to walk around and freely use the word "n***er ?

I would have to agree with your answer on the first question, however we are world's apart on the second answer, although I was raised with that word used on occasion, I at an early age made a conscious effort to never use it again.

It was a situation very similar to yours, and I think I felt worse and beat myself up over it more than my friend ever would have, that was over 40 years ago.

But I DO see labeling ALL Whites for the sins of a select few many years ago as a MUCH bigger issue than being able to use or not use a word.

Maybe this is the part where you may not be able to grasp my feelings on the subject because you have never walked in my shoes, and again, I say that with all sincerity.

I will give you an example of resent times, a brown man, shoots a Black kid, and regardless of who was right wrong or indifferent, it becomes a Black/ White issue, HOW?

This agenda was and is being pushed by the "supposed" leaders of the Black community, I say supposed because I have Black friends that would be the first to tell you that Jackson, Sharpton, and others in no way shape or form speak for them.

It is much bigger than ONE word, it is always pushed to an "us against you" analogy, why?


BTW, EIO, thanks for the civil discussion.

[TerpEagle]

I understand completely what you and Ohio are saying. But, "Hey A-Hole" is a little different don't you think? I'm just hung up on the fact that the word in question is so Heinous that it should'nt be used by anyone, ever. White or Black.

That's more a matter of taste than offending or insulting someone. The connotation is specifically offensive when from one race to another and is not when within the same race.

Just like the connotation of any insult varies depending on the user and receiver.

I used to have your opinion and if slurs in general disappeared from our lexicon I wouldn't miss them.

But from a taste perspective, I personally don't care if people within a certain race, ethnicity or some other group use a typically pejorative term to one another as a term of endearment because if I'm not part of that association and it doesn't involve me.

It's not up to me to decide the way in which people interact with one another as long as it doesn't harm me or others.

A word in and of itself shouldn't be what causes the offense. It's the method in which its used - that's more important.