Congratulations NRA

[Irish George]

Not really

A depressed person could have suicidal thoughts but not follow through if it's not as easy as sticking a Barrell in their mouth. Not to say that a determined person wouldn't find another way but I bet if guns weren't so easy to get, some suicides could be prevented.

[Riccardo]

Well since you posted this today I assumed you were talking about yesterday

I've posted a thousand times I support strong gun control laws. NJ has strong gun control laws. California has even stronger gun control laws. Gun control laws have nothing to do with Islamic terrorists killing US. Might I point out that Islamic terrorists killed almost 4000 people here with their only weapon being box cutters?

[Irish George]

No the whole point of the header...

I've posted a thousand times I support strong gun control laws. NJ has strong gun control laws. California has even stronger gun control laws. Gun control laws have nothing to do with Islamic terrorists killing US. Might I point out that Islamic terrorists killed almost 4000 people here with their only weapon being box cutters?

Is to drive home the point that the anti-gun control crowd seems to have won. incidents like yesterday's are becoming way too routine and nothing is changing in the way we try or don't try to control guns.

[Riccardo]

Very poor timing then

Let's blame the NRA for the Paris attacks too

[McCarthy12]

I don't know. I'm not saying it wouldn't prevent any suicides. However I worked on a suicide hotline for several years and took about 30 hours or training in order to do so. My experience is that when someone gets to the point that they are likely to actually take their life, a specific plan as to how to do it has been formulated and all that remains is to carry it out. The first thing you ask someone is if they have a plan. So, if they have made the determination to kill themselves, having a gun presents a means, but if that means isn't available, there is a pretty good chance they will look for other means. You kind of have to look at it backwards - the fact that they went through with it means they were serious and once you are in that state, I don't believe you have a strong preference of one method over another.

Edit - Perhaps more importantly, one of the biggest misconceptions about suicide is that if you ask a person who has suicidal thoughts but is not going to follow through if they are suicidal, it will put them over the edge. It will not and that is why it is important to ask. Similarly, simply having the means to do so, which to some extent are always present, most likely will not either.

[Irish George]

Well the problem with that...

Let's blame the NRA for the Paris attacks too

Is if I waited for better timing there would be two or three more mass shootings in the interim.

[Irish George]

One of my daughters friends

Killed herself with her dad!s gun. She was 16. I guess you could say she just would have jumped in front of a train, but she never had to leave her own bedroom.

[Riccardo]

That's on the Dad, sadly enough

owners have a responsibility to keep guns out of the hands of others

[Irish George]

Exactly. Why did he need to own it?

Safe neighborhood, not a hunter or target shooter. If the gun's not there maybe his daughter is still with us.

[McCarthy12]

Believe me, I get it. It certainly makes it a lot easier. I talked to people in that situation. And I obviously can't say with certainty that she would have found another way. It's impossible to know that and therefore, at the end of the day, the gun provided the means. It's such a tragedy it seems silly to argue (I know we're not really arguing) over this kind of thing. Probably my bad for even raising the argument.

[Irish George]

Even if the absence of a gun delayed it...

...by a few days, she might have gotten the help she needed in the meantime.

[D Leff]

I'm not giving mine up anytime soon, but as someone who has bought a gun, I'll admit, it's so fucking easy to get one (and an armory worth of ammunition), that it's scary as fuck. At least it was for me anyway.

[TerpEagle]

I haven't even looked at the link, but I'm not sure it makes sense to lump suicide deaths in with murders. Aren't we really talking about the ability of one person to kill others? A person who has made the determination to take his or her own life is likely to carry it out. Establishing a plan usually occurs beforehand, so, theoretically, if there is no other method available (pills, knives, etc), not having the firearm might make a difference. I think it is unlikely though. This is distinguishable from the fact that firearms provide a tool that can't easily be replicated in the context of killing others.

Method of suicide (2012):

Firearms: 51%
Suffocation: 25%
Poisoning: 17%
Fall: 2%
Everything else: 5%

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/suicide.htm
http://lostallhope.com/suicide-stati...ethods-suicide

Effectiveness of methods (2001):

Firearms: 85%
Suffocation: 69%
Poisoning: 2%
Fall: 31%

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-ma...case-fatality/
http://lostallhope.com/suicide-metho...lethal-methods

A gun to the head is highly effective and, relative to other methods, low in terms of agony.

So firearms are the most common and most effective method of suicide in the United States. I don't see how they should be ignored when trying to understand or address gun violence.

Like most other things related to gun violence versus other forms of violence, is comes down to access and effectiveness. While a truly determined person may find a way to commit homicide or suicide in the absence of firearms, firearms, by and far, represent the easiest and most common method.

[McCarthy12]

Totally agree.

[Riccardo]

Looking outside the US provides insight

Sure in the US guns are the most used method of suicide (men, not women however), but lack of access does not mean the numbers will go down. Countries like Finland and Denmark have much less access to guns and higher suicide rates. And even looking at the US, with more access to guns, use of them in suicides is declining.

http://ijmhs.biomedcentral.com/artic...1752-4458-8-22