I am disgusted.

[RSE]

Most times, when a lawyer argues that something is not a simple question, it is because it is a simple question.

[slag]

Not this time.

[RSE]

No, it's not. The answer is yes. Now what may be true is that the reason why the answer is yes is not simple.

[RSE]

And I am expert on simple, being a simpleton.

[slag]

It's not a simple "yes" ... because if you leave it at that, you're suggesting that cops are racists ... which I won't do.

[slag]

PS - when I say "you're suggesting" I didn't mean you.

[slag]

PPS - I'm talking too much like a lawyer now ... we agree on this, I'm pretty sure.

[TerpEagle]

You may want to look up the demographics of violent crime arrests/convictions

Ok, Riccardo, I'll concede that the data of those killed with regard to those arrested is even across racial lines. When it comes to killing people, the police are very even handed across the country.

You're just 2.3 times as likely to arrested (and therefore shot and killed by a cop) if you're black rather than white in the United States.


2010: % of Population (does not break out Hispanics from White and Black):
White: 72.4%
Black: 12.6%

2012: % of Total Arrests (does not break out Hispanics from White and Black):
White: 69.3% (96% of their population demographic)
Black: 28.1% (223% of their population demographic)

The data for those shot breaks out Hispanics so using overall US demographics it would adjust to this:

% of people shot and killed by police in 2015:

White: 67.1% (97% of the total arrest value)
Black: 27.1% (97% of the total arrest value)

[rdog5]

Too much to comment on but I will try:

1. Terp, you complain about the system being rigged and bad cops not being removed and claim the thin blue line. Good cops want bad cops removed but just like any work place they are afforded rights and they take advantage of those work place rights and through grievances are often returned to the force even though agencies do their best to remove them. I have seen it countless times.

2. An officer generally understands the legal system at a higher level than average citizen so therefore prosecuting is that much more difficult because whether you like it or not they are afforded the same rights as you. As I believe there are instances of cops protecting other bad cops because it will always happen it is the extreme minority because as agencies reflect their community demographics the philosophies change and millenials simply do not have the protectionism quality of years ago.

3. Statistics are nice but if the Coimmander in Chief had any concern for this problem he would study this issue. If an agency works in a city that is 12% black but that accounts for 50% of the calls the police respond to. If you then factor in that of those 50% of calls that 25% of them are crimes involving violence and/or guns. Then simply saying the death rates should match across the board is taking the lazy way out. We need an honest look into these shootings to see what the real issues are. Maybe look closely to see what percentage of shootings across the racial divide involve resistance. I would suggest that if those numbers are significantly skewed you may be right about this being a race issue.

4. Its funny how we point to the police and say it must be a police issue. Maybe we are raising a society through 60% of households in the black community are single parent households. Do you think this has any impact on levels of respect shown, their socioeconomic status and arrest statistics. The black community is the only community where this statistic is above 50% while whites are in the 24% range. Maybe having a father figure in a home demanding respect and teaching respect, teaching someone that when someone in authority tells you to do something you do it rather than resist would impact this issue.

We denounce Muslims for not vocally criticizing terrorists among them. We all know the majority of Muslims are good people yet without them being willing to police their community first it creates a fear of their entire community. Same analogy can be made here. While blaming the police is the easy way maybe the black community also needs to address their own concerns such as black on black crime, single parent households, etc. I suggest this because you are more apt to get others involved when you take on some of the responsibility yourself rather than just blame others.

Now I tried to be as clear as possible and I am sure some will read this and determine that since I said some things that protect police that I am pro-police and anti-black or that suggesting single family households in the minority community contribute to the problem must mean I am prejudice or racist. We have to learn that people are more complex then placing them on a side like a sports team. We have to stop rooting for one side to win but that is our current state. We root for political candidates to win and if our guy doesn't we want the other to fail sometimes at our own expense.

I personally feel that the Commander in Chief has done some good things but is the worst president in my lifetime. Race relations are worse now than any point in my life (70's baby). Why is that? Could it be his public stance for people like Michael Brown and Henry Gates when they were in the wrong empowers a movement. I would suggest to you if the President would have stood and denounced Michael Brown supporters and supported Officer Wilson who was deemed to be completely justified that the healing process could have started there. Imagine a black leader saying to his community that I know there are issues we need to address but in this instance Michael Brown was wrong he would have gained support of white leaders and black leaders alike. He has not done that at all during his tenure and often speaks or sends people to attend funerals for the black people that are shot while no support for the cops that are ambushed. What kind of message does that send.

Again you have no idea who I am so if you label me some sort of racist form this post look inside yourself and ask if maybe your own societal viewpoints are making you come to that conclusion because what is said here is not condemning any particular race but more to stimulate thought.

[Drama Queen]

All out hate because you are a police officer in 5...4...3...

Too much to comment on but I will try:

1. Terp, you complain about the system being rigged and bad cops not being removed and claim the thin blue line. Good cops want bad cops removed but just like any work place they are afforded rights and they take advantage of those work place rights and through grievances are often returned to the force even though agencies do their best to remove them. I have seen it countless times.

2. An officer generally understands the legal system at a higher level than average citizen so therefore prosecuting is that much more difficult because whether you like it or not they are afforded the same rights as you. As I believe there are instances of cops protecting other bad cops because it will always happen it is the extreme minority because as agencies reflect their community demographics the philosophies change and millenials simply do not have the protectionism quality of years ago.

3. Statistics are nice but if the Coimmander in Chief had any concern for this problem he would study this issue. If an agency works in a city that is 12% black but that accounts for 50% of the calls the police respond to. If you then factor in that of those 50% of calls that 25% of them are crimes involving violence and/or guns. Then simply saying the death rates should match across the board is taking the lazy way out. We need an honest look into these shootings to see what the real issues are. Maybe look closely to see what percentage of shootings across the racial divide involve resistance. I would suggest that if those numbers are significantly skewed you may be right about this being a race issue.

4. Its funny how we point to the police and say it must be a police issue. Maybe we are raising a society through 60% of households in the black community are single parent households. Do you think this has any impact on levels of respect shown, their socioeconomic status and arrest statistics. The black community is the only community where this statistic is above 50% while whites are in the 24% range. Maybe having a father figure in a home demanding respect and teaching respect, teaching someone that when someone in authority tells you to do something you do it rather than resist would impact this issue.

We denounce Muslims for not vocally criticizing terrorists among them. We all know the majority of Muslims are good people yet without them being willing to police their community first it creates a fear of their entire community. Same analogy can be made here. While blaming the police is the easy way maybe the black community also needs to address their own concerns such as black on black crime, single parent households, etc. I suggest this because you are more apt to get others involved when you take on some of the responsibility yourself rather than just blame others.

Now I tried to be as clear as possible and I am sure some will read this and determine that since I said some things that protect police that I am pro-police and anti-black or that suggesting single family households in the minority community contribute to the problem must mean I am prejudice or racist. We have to learn that people are more complex then placing them on a side like a sports team. We have to stop rooting for one side to win but that is our current state. We root for political candidates to win and if our guy doesn't we want the other to fail sometimes at our own expense.

I personally feel that the Commander in Chief has done some good things but is the worst president in my lifetime. Race relations are worse now than any point in my life (70's baby). Why is that? Could it be his public stance for people like Michael Brown and Henry Gates when they were in the wrong empowers a movement. I would suggest to you if the President would have stood and denounced Michael Brown supporters and supported Officer Wilson who was deemed to be completely justified that the healing process could have started there. Imagine a black leader saying to his community that I know there are issues we need to address but in this instance Michael Brown was wrong he would have gained support of white leaders and black leaders alike. He has not done that at all during his tenure and often speaks or sends people to attend funerals for the black people that are shot while no support for the cops that are ambushed. What kind of message does that send.

Again you have no idea who I am so if you label me some sort of racist form this post look inside yourself and ask if maybe your own societal viewpoints are making you come to that conclusion because what is said here is not condemning any particular race but more to stimulate thought.

...2...

[Maniac]

Race relations are worse now than any point in my life (70's baby). Why is that? Could it be his public stance for people like Michael Brown and Henry Gates when they were in the wrong empowers a movement. I would suggest to you if the President would have stood and denounced Michael Brown supporters and supported Officer Wilson who was deemed to be completely justified that the healing process could have started there.

I would suggest to you when they start putting cops that murder in jail the healing process will start. The difference now is that the murders are getting publicized because of the Internet and 24 hour news channels.

[rdog5]

I would suggest to you when they start putting cops that murder in jail the healing process will start. The difference now is that the murders are getting publicized because of the Internet and 24 hour news channels.

so in your own words we are currently in the process of healing? It sure does not feel that way. Between 2005-2011, 41 officers were arrested for murder or manslaughter. According to your quote one can only assume you want cops arrested for murder based on your judgement of what murder is based on not having all the facts.

The difference now is not simply just one factor as you suggest. That type of simple thought suggests you expand your horizons a bit and realize these are complex issues.

[Maniac]

so in your own words we are currently in the process of healing? It sure does not feel that way. Between 2005-2011, 41 officers were arrested for murder or manslaughter. According to your quote one can only assume you want cops arrested for murder based on your judgement of what murder is based on not having all the facts.

The difference now is not simply just one factor as you suggest. That type of simple thought suggests you expand your horizons a bit and realize these are complex issues.

Were those 41 convicted and jailed? Who did they murder? Ex-wives? 41 in 7 years isn't very many. How many police killings were there during those years. Pointless factoid without context.

It is simple. When police killing black men is a headline every other day, there are going to be increased racial tensions.

Blaming it on Obama is as dumb as it gets. His only impact is creating a lot of butthurt people about having a black President.

[rdog5]

Were those 41 convicted and jailed? Who did they murder? Ex-wives? 41 in 7 years isn't very many. How many police killings were there during those years. Pointless factoid without context.

It is simple. When police killing black men is a headline every other day, there are going to be increased racial tensions.

Blaming it on Obama is as dumb as it gets. His only impact is creating a lot of butthurt people about having a black President.

Its hard not to be contemptuous to your statements but I will hold back.

As I advocate for a neutral and open dialogue, educating ourselves for root causes and developing solutions your response is to strengthen your unsupported and hyperbolic position and a vague reference of racism behind my displeasure towards our current president.

Again life is more complex that that simpleton response. Why hasn't the administration supported detailed research into police shootings? Surely they would have community support. Look deep into the details of who, what, when where, and why they occur. My personal opinion, which is supported by the Mcdonald study (http://www.dailywire.com/news/7264/5...-aaron-bandler) is they would not have the facts to support their position but I am more than willing for an Academic study to prove my opinion wrong. Its more important we get this right then it is for me to be right.

Why didn't president Obama stand in front of the American people as a leader of a nation and show support for Officer Darren Wilson and condemn the actions of Michael Brown? Great leaders stand in the face of difficult circumstances and take the correct path or say the right things even though it may be difficult. The Department of Justice injects itself into these matters on a regular basis and attends funerals of proven thugs in pseudo-support but never seems to show when cops are ambushed.

And since your google is broken I will lead you to water but can't make you drink:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30339943

[rdog5]

Interesting read:

https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/wp-co...is_April16.pdf

I am sure both sides can find supporting articles thats why we need to invest resources into what is going on as a nation.