OT: More GUNS

[TerpEagle]

This article is in direct opposition of what you posted, so which one is the truth?

Your article has a lot of issues with it.

First of all, the charts lack any sort of labeling. It can be assumed that the x-axis is the year but what the hell is on some of the y-axes?

1) Where are the results from 2000 - 2013 in the top chart? They don't count?

2) In the total murder chart? Are there really only 50 knife murders and 15 gun murders in Australia? Are knife murders that high in general? That would suggest a much bigger problem anyway if before a gun ban more people were being stabbed to death than shot. Unfortunately, no labels.

Oh, it's relative use. I have to search through the comments to figure out where the hell this transparent data came from.

http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide/weapon.html

So, knife deaths went up 10%. There's no discussion of the overall change in deaths. I guess that's secondary.

3) The assault numbers include threats and attempts. There is no discussion of actual deaths. I checked the website for that data.

4) Robberies, armed or otherwise, trend similarly and have actually decreased since 2001. There is little discussion of why they increased up to the turn of the century. Also, no data since 2007.

This chart does a better job. I gathered the data for it from http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/australia



In general, gun deaths were already dropping in Australia prior to the 1997. In fact they've slowed since then, but they also may be reaching an asymptote since they're relatively small.

Total homicides have noticeably declined from 1999 on - at a higher rate than what the data shows from 1990 when compared to from 1997.

Like overall gun deaths, total gun homicides have declined slightly less sharply from 1997 on compared to from 1988 although not as much as total gun deaths.

If anything, the Australia ban is likely a wash except in a possible reduction in overall homicides - secondary I suppose as gun homicides declined at a lower rate.

[TerpEagle]

You have to forgive ref, he's a little dumb. As far as drunk driving goes, the easiest solution is to get rid of cars errr alcohol, wait what?

Fewer cars would mean fewer deaths due to traffic accidents and drunk drivers.

However, unlike guns, automobiles are a necessity for most Americans given the geographical sprawl of this country and lack of useful, economical public transportation.

Therefore, stricter laws on vehicle safety and driver responsibility have to make due.

As for alcohol, there is clearly an issue with excessive alcohol use and abuse in this country and the world in general. Following suit, there is a lack of responsibility by many consumers of alcohol and they turn objects needed for every day use, automobiles, into very dangerous weapons. Banning alcohol was attempted and it didn't work, but stricter laws have been put in place limiting its use with respect to dangerous activities and we see that drunk driving related deaths have decreased significantly.

I know you didn't want an actual reply to your inane post that offered nothing - but there you got one.

[Eagle Road]

Of course you are posting from one "Free Republic" here as if it is absolute truth. Basically you've outed yourself as if it wasn't apparent from your earlier posts.

I posted the article to show that there were two diametrically opposed articles, both claiming to have the answer, but only one article listed a Gov. website that backed up what was written, it was and is that simple, but of course you can feel free to read into it whatever you like.

How do you suppose I knew The Guardian was an established Brit Liberal news source if I don't read it?

[TerpEagle]

I posted the article to show that there were two diametrically opposed articles, both claiming to have the answer, but only one article listed a Gov. website that backed up what was written, it was and is that simple, but of course you can feel free to read into it whatever you like.

How do you suppose I knew The Guardian was an established Brit Liberal news source if I don't read it?

And one was an established new source while the other was a blog. Both may have bias, one has credibility, investigative journalism and significantly less bias than a blog that calls itself :

The Premier Conservative Site on the Net!

At least it doesn't use the word news.

[IronEagle]

I posted the article to show that there were two diametrically opposed articles, both claiming to have the answer, but only one article listed a Gov. website that backed up what was written, it was and is that simple, but of course you can feel free to read into it whatever you like.

How do you suppose I knew The Guardian was an established Brit Liberal news source if I don't read it?

I think the "Free Republic" website is a cesspool. Even Drudge doesn't link to them any more. If you want to cite right wing news sites there are plenty you can use which have more credibility.

[Eagle Road]

You fail to understand the point. In both Spain and in Switzerland there are plenty of firearms. The difference as opposed to the US is that in those countries they are regulated. They are not prohibited in any of Spain, Switzerland, or the US. In the US the regulations are minimal.

Go back to reading the "Free Republic" website.

The DIFFERENCE, at least in Switzerland, (maybe Spain have never been there) is that there is a real sense of responsibility that is taught from an early age about gun ownership and what it means, I DO think that is one of the most overlooked issues here.

Otherwise you would no have little kids taking daddy's gun off the table and shooting his sister.

HE (the child) was never taught about guns and to respect them, the father or parents were too stupid to think it necessary.

[Eagle Road]

I think the "Free Republic" website is a cesspool. Even Drudge doesn't link to them any more. If you want to cite right wing news sites there are plenty you can use which have more credibility.

Jesus, I PULLED THAT ARTICLE because it was an opposition article AND listed a source to back up what was in the article, I don't care if it came from the Onion.

[TerpEagle]

Jesus, I PULLED THAT ARTICLE because it was an opposition article AND listed a source to back up what was in the article, I don't care if it came from the Onion.

Well that just says a lot of about what you'll use to make a point doesn't it?

[IronEagle]

The DIFFERENCE, at least in Switzerland, (maybe Spain have never been there) is that there is a real sense of responsibility that is taught from an early age about gun ownership and what it means, I DO think that is one of the most overlooked issues here.

Otherwise you would no have little kids taking daddy's gun off the table and shooting his sister.

HE (the child) was never taught about guns and to respect them, the father or parents were too stupid to think it necessary.

Spaniards are pretty familiar with guns. They had a Civil War there 75 or so years ago.

[TerpEagle]

The DIFFERENCE, at least in Switzerland, (maybe Spain have never been there) is that there is a real sense of responsibility that is taught from an early age about gun ownership and what it means, I DO think that is one of the most overlooked issues here.

Otherwise you would no have little kids taking daddy's gun off the table and shooting his sister.

HE (the child) was never taught about guns and to respect them, the father or parents were too stupid to think it necessary.

Meanwhile, Switzerland not only has significantly more guns and more gun deaths per capita than Spain (or any OECD country aside from the US), they are also above the linear regression of the countries in the chart I posted.

http://igglephans.com/iggboard/showthread.php?p=1743160

They have more guns, and they're more dangerous with them that even Americans. Great culture.

Next argument?

[Eagle Road]

And one was an established new source while the other was a blog. Both may have bias, one has credibility, investigative journalism and significantly less bias than a blog that calls itself :

The Premier Conservative Site on the Net!

At least it doesn't use the word news.

So just because it is a blog, but offers a Gov. link to what is being listed and where the info came from, is less credible, than some journalist opinion?

Let that sink in for a moment.

[TerpEagle]

This is what I don't get. I get having guns for hunting, by all means people hunt away, if you didn't then deer would cause more accidents a year, most likely, then drinking and driving.

But the hand guns, assault weapons, and the unnecessary amounts of ammo I will never understand.

I was SRT (Army SWAT) for 4 years while in, shot all types of weapons and rounds down range. Haven't shot a gun since '04 when I got of the Army. Point being I just don't understand this country's gun lust.

Is it due to Old Westerns? The scary media? Really I don't get it

So I guess you're happy that your penis is now smaller since you left the Army.

[Riccardo]

What are you talking about?

You honestly believe the only violence in this country is from guns? That's looney toons.. wouldn't expect such nonsense from you.

[TerpEagle]

So just because it is a blog, but offers a Gov. link to what is being listed and where the info came from, is less credible, than some journalist opinion?

Let that sink in for a moment.

No, it's less credible because it's not a credible new site. It provided terrible data that didn't include labels. It proudly claims its bias. It writes shit "articles" that use buzzword and bogeymen.

Journalists and news sites answer to more people than biased web sites.

And I'm not knocking blogs - they can be great, but they can also be terrible and misleading. The Free Republic is the latter and proven by that article. If they were so concerned with the real data, why didn't they show the numbers it took me 10 minutes to find, plot and upload for you?

[TerpEagle]

You honestly believe the only violence in this country is from guns? That's looney toons.. wouldn't expect such nonsense from you.

Of course it's not only from guns but to say that our culture is more violent than other developed is unfounded - unless you mean the need to own guns as significantly different violent behavior.

We have the same television, books, movies, music, video games, etc. as the rest of the Western and modern world. The chart I posted shows that America falls right in line with OECD countries when it comes to deaths per gun. The difference between America and those other countries is that we have way more guns per person here.