This Malaysian airline story is getting surreal

[The Duck]

So you are saying they would attack with the transponder ON, in order to pass for a commercial airliner?

Not exactly, but I guess I'm saying that if such a thing can be done, it's on the table as a possible answer to the "why this plane?" question. Something that would allow them to avoid detection for as long as necessary to reach the target. Something they couldn't find in a black-market narrow or wide-body. What that might be? No idea. Aviation electronics isn't my field of expertise.

And the target could be Japan, China, Saudi Arabia or Damascus for all we know. It doesn't necessarily have to be the United States.

[IronEagle]

I worked in avionics briefly but I have no idea about that. Don't know if they transmit a serial number... probably not. My guess is that you program in an ID of some sort and they transmit that. But again, if there is a rogue ID that should be detectable if you are looking for it. But easy to miss as well.

Thinking about it some more, you could definitely create confusion if you programmed in an ID identical to a legitimate flight. But again, the existence of two duplicate IDs should raise a red flag if somebody was looking for it.

[RSE]

I understand the pilots could have climbed to 43,000 feet, put on their oxygen masks, and, because they control the oxygen to the passengers' masks, suffocated all the passengers. Is that possible?

[IronEagle]

I understand the pilots could have climbed to 43,000 feet, put on their oxygen masks, and, because they control the oxygen to the passengers' masks, suffocated all the passengers. Is that possible?

I think those masks automatically deploy upon depressurization. The oxygen is generated for each mask separately using a chemical reaction... Remember what happened to that ValuJet plane that was carrying used oxygen generators.

But maybe it's possible if you stayed at an altitude high enough long enough the pilots oxygen supply would outlive that of the passengers.

[The Duck]

I think those masks automatically deploy upon depressurization. The oxygen is generated for each mask separately using a chemical reaction... Remember what happened to that ValuJet plane that was carrying used oxygen generators.

But maybe it's possible if you stayed at an altitude high enough long enough the pilots oxygen supply would outlive that of the passengers.

They'd have 10 minute of oxygen, from what I've heard.

[Riccardo]

Getting back to your earlier point

I gotta believe US military satellites track pretty much everything in the sky - they might not care about civilian aircraft but you'd think they could look at the data and see where it went

[The Duck]

Thinking about it some more, you could definitely create confusion if you programmed in an ID identical to a legitimate flight. But again, the existence of two duplicate IDs should raise a red flag if somebody was looking for it.

Interesting.

[philly4life]

Transponders dont transmit the aircraft serial#, but they do send out the tail number (in a hex code format). Very simple process to reprogram for a different tail number.

However, what would be the point of hijacking a 777 just to use it as a sled for a nuke? For terrorists who can afford a nuke, buying a smaller jet legally or otherwise would be extremely easy, and wouldnt broadcast tot the world that a plane is missing. The size of a plane used to deliver a nuke doesnt make a bit of difference and there are plenty of biz jets that have a longer range than a 777.

[The Duck]

I really don't know

However, what would be the point of hijacking a 777 just to use it as a sled for a nuke? For terrorists who can afford a nuke, buying a smaller jet legally or otherwise would be extremely easy, and wouldnt broadcast tot the world that a plane is missing.

I have zero knowledge of the aviation black market or how it works. I do know that if a plane, any plane, is used as a delivery system for an unconventional weapon, you're going to have the full force of every law enforcement, intelligence and military investigative apparatus in the western world bearing down on the origins of that plane. Could make it difficult for known terrorists to find willing sellers or even straw-buyers. There has to be a reason they haven't purchased a large plane for use in an attack to date.

[PackWest]

you're going to have the full force of every law enforcement, intelligence and military investigative apparatus in the western world bearing down on the origins of that plane.

Perhaps they need to have a very high-value hostage(s) on-board to convince the military to back off.. or they need to cause enough confusion and delay in the response to succeed with their mission

Hiding in the "shadow" of a legit airliner is one of many scenarios that somebody could dream up about why they want a 777 - and the routes that 777's fly cover most of the world's major cities.

If ATC looked at their radar screen and saw 2 identical planes with 2 identical tail numbers in close proximity - what would they do ?
Take out both or neither ? Which weapons systems can distinguish between 2 identical targets in super-close proximity ? How do you hit one without damaging the other ? I have no clue but it seems like a "safe" place to "hide" on the way to a major city

In other words, hide in plane sight
.

[IronEagle]

Which weapons systems can distinguish between 2 identical targets in super-close proximity ?
.

Pilot using guns. I don't think a 777 would be difficult for a military plane to shoot down. Aim for the engines.

A lot of right wingers seem to be almost enjoying creating a doomsday scenario out of this. But then again fear has always been a major weapon of the right, if not the biggest weapon.

I've lived my entire life under the threat of being nuked with about 30 minutes notice.

[The Duck]

Pilot using Guns.

A lot of right wingers seem to be almost enjoying creating a doomsday scenario out of this.

Since doomsday is the stated objective of the folks we're talking about, the scenarios are worth considering.

Not sure why it went political, but I suppose it was only a matter of time before it did.

[noguano]

Pilot using guns. I don't think a 777 would be difficult for a military plane to shoot down. Aim for the engines.

A lot of right wingers seem to be almost enjoying creating a doomsday scenario out of this. But then again fear has always been a major weapon of the right, if not the biggest weapon.

I've lived my entire life under the threat of being nuked with about 30 minutes notice.

The AC (Aircraft Commander) incapacitated the CP (Co-pilot) barricaded the cockpit door and preceded to fly until he decided the time was right to dive the 777 straight down. What a ride that must of been. The wreckage will be discovered eventually.

that is all

[IronEagle]

Since doomsday is the stated objective of the folks we're talking about, the scenarios are worth considering.

Not sure why it went political, but I suppose it was only a matter of time before it did.

Again, I've lived my entire life under the threat of being nuked with 30 minutes notice. When I was a kid we had bomb drills in my school.

I see no reason to be more afraid today than I have ever been. A hijacked plane really doesn't change the risk portfolio much for me. I'm sure Russia and China still have at least one nuke each aimed at me. THAT scares me more than a hijacked plane does.

[Riccardo]

Nuclear war is a right wing "scare tactic"?

That possibility came closest during that right winger JFK's term... come on, that's ridiculous